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Previously, one of my goldfish had a strange disease, there were white strings coming from his mouth that almost suffocate him to death. I had to use some of the water current of a powerhead to unblock the gills from the slime, it worked and got alive from death almost instantly...

This is how the disease started. Notice the lateral line dots are getting hollow.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Sharpix/TorpedoSickAgain2.jpg

Then the disease is like this now:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Sharpix/TorpedoSickAgain3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Sharpix/TorpedoSickAgain1.jpg


Then, a problem that's getting back, still causes damage. The scales at the tail base are raised with colors of red on that area. I have given treatments of copper sulphate, then Nala-gram (that stopped the advance of the disease), then Furan-2 that was useful through the time I dosed but then at the watetr changes and no medication, the disease got back. Then I again dosed Furan2 and acriflavin and the thing is coming back.

The base of the tail still has raised scales and this tail muscle seems inflamed, the dorsal fin has red veins at the base and so the tail of the goldfish. the poop is white with some traces of food (the food is red, im sure its not blood). The goldfish eats very well but the thing at the tail keeps coming back.

Could it be septicemia with some stomach infection? Why the disease keeps coming after 2 weeks of medication?

Sharpix....

Ok a few quick questions...

What size of tank is the goldfish in?
What size is the goldfish?
What kind of filtration do you have running on the tank?
What else is in the tank with him? I notice another fish in the background on photo one...

To me it looks as though he is simply changing colors, but it is late, and I am getting tired...

If it were me, I'd keep up with the water changes...do 30% a week...goldfish are very waste producing fish...

Let us know about the other stuff...

For everyone else...here are the photos linked

[link=photo1]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Sharpix/TorpedoSickAgain1.jpg" style="COLOR: #B5CEDE[/link]
[link=photo2]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Sharpix/TorpedoSickAgain2.jpg" style="COLOR: #B5CEDE[/link]
[link=photo3]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Sharpix/TorpedoSickAgain3.jpg" style="COLOR: #B5CEDE[/link]

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

Hey Sharpix - poor fella looks like he's in big trouble.

Have you isolated him yet? If not, consider it and get the salt going to prevent osmotic shock. You know that drill, no need to repeat.

As much as you may not want to go back into antibiotic again, that is what he needs. Whether there is a microscopic parasite that continues to create these infections, or it is an infection that is really embedded - who knows. I would try him on a two week treatment, but because we have used some of the nitrofurans and it comes back, the question would be - is it resistant?

What else can you find in Mexico? Many infections are resistant to Sulfa, but if you can find a sulfa based mixture (3 types of sulfas or sulfa-trimethoprim) that could work. Tetracycline is ok, but it is deactivated by light. If you had access to Kanacyn (kanamycin sulfate), I'd suggest going that route. One other possibility is Erythromycin (E-mycin, Maracyn). But, if I had access to Maracyn and Maracyn-2, I would use both together - they complement each other.

Either way, he needs to be in quarantine and he needs a much longer dose of medicine. Ultimately, medicated food would work best. I would make the tetracycline mix as follows and feed it exclusively for at least two weeks, along with something in the water. Oral is so much more effective than bath. Just let him eat as much as he can in 5-7 minutes, while he is still feeding. Once the infection takes a heavy grip, he'll go off food. That is very close to being an internal/systemic infection by the looks of it, if it hasn't happened already.

[hr width='40%']

Medicated Food Recipe

Coated medicated foods aren't nearly as effective as that which is "milled in". This recipe is the closest we can get to milled in. Too much can come off of a coated pellet and not as much can be delivered.

Note: you can substitute any of the foods, but keep the amounts in the same ballpark. However, I would not use previously frozen foods. According to Hikari, frozen fish food can foul quickly, even in the fridge. Use Freeze Dried.

1-tablet Tetracycline tablets ground into a fine powder.
1-tsp. of ground flake food (grind until it reaches powder form)
2-tablets of Nutrafin Spirulina Tablets (grind into a powder)
1/4-tsp. ground freeze dried bloodworms (approximately 1 tsp. before grinding)
1-envelope Knox Gelatine for Recipes (unflavored)
1-cup dechlorinated water

Bring water to a boil and and add Knox Gelatin. Let cool for 30 minutes. Add remaining ingredients, cover and place in refrigerator for 1 hour. After one hour take food out and stir thoroughly. Place back in refrigerator to allow to set. Once food is set freeze half of it. The other half put on a clean well-rinsed plate and mash with fork. Feed fish twice a day what they can eat. (Caution: Food will sink to the bottom right away. If not eaten within 30 minutes take remaining food out.)
Any of the ingredients may be replaced to make suitable for other types of fish. If used as is, it is more suited for omnivores.


Last edited by Cory_Di at 13-Apr-2005 14:35

My boy is still looking very active and hungry Im betting this time on feed antibiotics by the recipe you gave me.

Explain me the sulfa, kanacyn and erythromycin treatmens. How are those dosed, in water or feed? I have used erythromicyn with good results against finrot. In the other hand, i haven used sulfas and kanacyn. Those seem available in human medications, aren't they?

The worst thing on this is I might be going on vacation this april 21th, so my fishes are going to a LFS, the guy is a friend of mine that has previously cared for my fishes previously. He obviously doesn't has any refrigerator in the store...

sulfa-trimethoprim) that could work.
Tetracycline is ok, but it is deactivated by light.
If you had access to Kanacyn (kanamycin sulfate), I'd suggest going that route.

Maracyn would be available as human medication, but maracyn-2, what does it contains? Together?

Im a little with all those medications...

I was rattling off some of what I know we have here in fish meds . I like the nitrofurans and you could go that route again, but it would require two back-to-back treatments, with no guarantee. If the infection was reduced to a low level (not much visibility) by the original Furan-2, then it had an opportunity to rebuild and possibly become resistant to it. But, that's not for certain. You could try it again, but no less than two rounds.

Maracyn = Erythromycin (E-Mycin)
Maracyn2 = Minocycline

I have not seen either of these in any oral antibiotic foods for fish - usually it is in bath, dosed daily, but unsure of mg per day.

E-Mycin is effective for something like columnaris, but Minocycline is better for systemic infections. This is why they are sometimes dosed together. E-mycin makes a real mess of the tank with slime breaking away within a day or so creating a ghostly appearance in the tank. I'm not 100% positive, but I believe this is the die-off of beneficial bacteria (read that - higher potential for ammonia and/or nitrite).

The same happens with sulfa, to my recollection. Sulfa alone is no good for most infections as they have become immune. But, when several sulfas are combined (sorry, I don't know the names of them), it is more effective. Ditto when it is combined with trimethoprim.

I have seen sulfa blends and sulfa with trimethoprim in medicated foods, but it is often combined with with a nitrofuran like nifurpironol and furazolidone and even nitrofurazone. I do know that the nitrofurans are not very palatable from what I have read and fish may not want to eat it. Such sulfa blends are also used in bath, but again, I'm unsure of dosing.

kanamycin sulfate I've seen in medicated food (Medi-Koi/Medi-Gold). But, it is also highly effective in bath and readily absorbed like the nitrofurans. So, you get a decent therapeutic level in the blood stream just having it in the water.

I know that best absorption through the skin is from the nitrofuran family (nitrofurazone, furazolidone) and kanamycin sulfate (kanacyn).

I hope this helps. It is complicated by the fact that you are leaving. I would at least get him into bath with antibiotic, even if you have to go with Furan-2 again. I would not waste time. Maybe when your friend takes him, he could continue with a second week of bath. The only issue is that he needs to check ammonia frequently and be prepared to do water changes regular as needed. Hopefully, he is not putting these fish with his fish as it could be contagious.

Also, the stress of transfer, with an infection already underway places the sick fish at additional risk. Their immunity drops with stress and allows the infection to take over. All the more reason to get him going on some kind of antibiotic now. You could do medicated food for now, along with bath, then cut back to a second bath alone until you get back.

While it is not as good, maybe your friend can use the powder coated method of delivery tetracycline while you are away. When you return, you can put him back on the gelatin mixture.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 14-Apr-2005 15:16

The Furans have worked well, in fact the disease stopped the time i dosed Furan2 previously.

Yesterday I talked with my LFS friend and told me he could go on vacation too ( he could told me he doesn't want to take care of my fishes, or he's will not give the treatment readily but every other day )

I leaving the fishes in my house and my girlfriend will take care of the fishes, coming twice a day to feed my fish. Im just concerned about the temperature of the water changes. I want to make it easy for her by giving some lessons about temperature, the strees-coat dosing and the filter cleaning.

Im readying a large bucket for the water and strees-coat mixture, along with a termometer. What else could she need! I'll call her perhaps twice to ask how's she doing (with my pets :%) )

With that, the fridge will be stocked with food (as opossite in the LFS) and she'll have everything in hand to make it possible. One water change at the middle of the week would be enough.

Im positive about this last treatment. I can't let him pass away, but since he's active and EATING, Im sure he can make it through this... again!

Im starting the treatment today, and I'll leave this thursday.... Lets see how the treatment goes...

Sharpix - trust me, get some containers to put your twice daily food rations in, or just have her feed them once daily. Especially with meds having been in the water, it's an ammonia burst waiting to happen. If your friend overfeeds just a little, it will add to the ammonia. Once daily will make it easy on her and the fish will be just fine.

Does she know how to do water changes?

I would advise against medication in the water while you are away. Rather, do your big water change before you leave, then let her continue with medicated food only.

You are very likley to encounter ammonia and/or nitrite in a two week treatment regimen. The tetracycline in teh gel-food recipe will do them

Its a good advice to only feed my friends once a day. She'll be thanking you for it !

I have been doing 2-day 50% water changes. The red veins at the tail are starting to dissappear **good sign of water quality and the start of healing)** but i prefeer don't get overexcited as this disease is still not erradicated.

The goldfish is eating VERY WELL, and im completly loving the way he's picking the food from my hand... HE has been very docile and not afraid of people, he even used to kiss my arm when i did water changes while he had the eyes not blocked by the soft head tissue

The food was correctly made, but im sure your recipe was intended to have more grenetin in the mix. The food is not as hard as your recipe said, but anyway the mix doesn't fades while he takes directly the food.

I had no-brand grenetin in hand and when I ended up the process, I found the same Knox box you told me what a bummer!

Im teaching her today for the water changes, with a checklist even a fool could do it. At the end of the water change, the water bucket will be filled and left within the house. The temp would be about the same in the tank and in the house.... My house's temperature inside is about 26° C while the tank is at 27°C I even bought a thermometer for the water bucket = peace of mind.

My sister will be visiting the house anyway, and she's very used to feed the fish... "Hey mom, who's chatting with the fishes? Maybe she's practicing before having a child!" "

That's great he is doing better. Keep doing the good work. Let us know how things go and good luck. Have fun on your vacation too. I'm glad the medicated recipe is working out.

Apr/05/05. Bad news: This time Im losing hope against this problem. I checked hours ago about the goldfish's health and he is starting to pinecone (all body). I know i have stopped that twice before but im just seeing ups and downs in my fish health... I stop medications then the scales get normal but then the infection or the thing he has in the tail comes again. No healing at the tail but only stopping this weird disease.

If its costia, I was battling against it. If its dropsy, I have stop the symptoms, but the only thing I know is the disease is coming back and back. I've dosed almost everything and nothing makes him heal.

I saw today a singhe white slimy string coming from his mouth when he was eating. That's the same problem he had previously.


1) white slime at gills... solved (temporarily)
2) tail muscle bloated with pinecone like and some skin cells getting water and hanging droplet-like.
3) Dropsy coming and going away...

I don't know if im mad or sad but perhaps desperation is something im not feeling. This time is just coming to an end and perhaps if he dies, im giving away the other goldfish. I don't want big fishes to have long suffering, i'd rather have small fishes that usually die faster.

Three years with my friend and he's in big danger, just as in the last two months... Its wednesday at 11:20pm and im leaving Friday at the morning.

Im thinking in suspending the tetracyline in the food to prevent more dropsy symptoms... the liver and kidney must be having a hard time. Im just dosing Furan2 another week.

I wouldn't like when my GF calls me to tell me 'your boy has passed away'. :#( I've been very worried about him but perhaps this time I should embrace the unavoidable result...

Im sure its septicemia. Even tough Furan-2 kills gram-negative bacteria too, im switching to Nala-gram, focusing on the septicemia. I haven't seen any permanent good results with anything, but when I used Nala-gram I had no problems...

Im starting to give up the faith on his recovery. I've been treating for more than a month against this problem and it doesn't go away.

Im leaving tomorrow and im yet to pack the things because im more concerned about my fishes... ]:|

Last edited by Sharpix at 21-Apr-2005 16:41

Awww - sharpix, I know the feeling. It's so heartbreaking.

I'm wishing there was something more I could suggest. Trying Nalagram may not be a bad idea.

I just came back from vacations, at last! it was a great trip with lots of fun but.... Torpedo, the goldfish is looking completly pineconed, perhaps in the 1/3rd stage but his body is completly like this.

I couldn't get Nala-gram before leaving so the treatment was: daily 33% water change with 1 Furan-2 capsule and a 500mg Erithromycin capsule (emulsified on water) every day.

Nothing worked good, not Furan and not even the antibiotic. It only confirms an internal infection of septicemia.... I just can't make him heal...

There's just one more thing to try, Nala-Gram. Anyway, its getting already too hard for the goldfish's liver and kidney to process all that medication... Im leaving all treatments a week with pristine water to see if something has changed... I really doubt something could work, there are some almost unperceivable looking red patches under the scales...

Damn, this is coming to an end, too bad its slow while my heart refuses to help ending this chapter... He is my first fish, and the only one who really seem to love people, eating from my hand, and getting 'happy' when somebody gets in front of the tank...

Its just getting downhill from here...

Sorry it is not working out Sharpix. As I've said so often, it is heartbreaking. IT's strange how size seems to impact us. The bigger they are, the harder it is to see them fall.

The goldfish has been bloated, im just giving pristine water conditions without medications for a week. Perhaps the last resort could be Nala-gram. I'll be trying that tomorrow...

A positive thing from this was that my girlfriend, when he was doing water changes for me when i was on vacation, he got hooked from the sweetness of Torpedo Goldfish... She started loving him, hand feeding him, even playing softly and receiving some 'kisses' hehe he thinks every hand is food, yet!

In moments things get sad but, anyway life has an end to everyone. Im making a final effort to try fix the things a bit...

And by the way, thanks for your enormous support Cory. I really appreciate that!

No problem, Sharpix. Good luck with him