FishProfiles.com Message Forums

i just wanted to tell you that i am using ammo-carb it`s a ammo-neuatralizing carbon you put it in your filters.
should i remove this from my filter?
also is it safe to give the oscar VERY VERY VERY small crushed up portions of human vitamin tablets?or is it safe to give the oscar liquid vitamin for humans as im a bit confused as what you meant before.??
right now he isnt eating b/c i want him hungry so he will accept Peas as someone suggested i do earlier.
Also i need a bit more info on what to do w/the frozen peas example;shell them,and do i microwave the or boil them?
i dont use any chemicals except water conditioner like AquaSafe,i think all of you are confused NitraBan is to stableize your aquariums and keep them nitrates low.

The main thing to keep a check on is your water quality. Make sure you keep the nitrates and ammonia down.

Feed him the vitamins daily. High-potency doesn't matter.. just use less of them (maybe 1/2 at a time). You need to be feeding them something with b,c and d in it. The HITH can be a result of a defficiency in all of these things. Without testing your guy, there's no way of knowing what he's defficient in.. so give him the lot! You should make sure you feed this to them atleast once a day, for atleast 3-4 days after the last signs of HITH have gone. Then, as long as you vary their diet, maybe give them a vitamin suppliment once a week. Thats what i do with the pea's. If you're guy doesn't like them, i'd be very supprised. You've probably been giving him a lot of meat based food like feeders and worms? Well.. pea's wont compare to that! You should keep meaty treats to once or twice a month.

Keep your nitrates down from now on (i.e. get a better filter or do more regular water changes) and you wont see the HITH again! There might be some scaring on your fish, but with that ugly Oscar head, you'll hardly notice Hey, i've got two and acknowledge it's a face only it's mother (or owner) could love!

[span class="edited"][Edited by jester_fu 2004-08-29 04:45][/span]

im using a B12 supplement and my mom also has a multi vit w/b,c,d but i chose not to use these as they are high potency.
How often should i do this.

Use a whole tablet, dislove it in some water(you might want to crush it using a mortar and pessel), and then soak the food in the mixed water and vitamin before feeding to the fish. Leave the pellets to soak for about 3 minutes or until they are aldante (soft but not mushy). Feed the pellets to your Oscar one at a time, until he has had his fill.

all the tank paremeters were in check last night and since he was not fed i have a hard time beleiving they changed alot.
Also how much of the multi-V should i use the whole pill,half,a quarter?
i will try this tommorrow if someone replies.
thanks

OK.. sorry. It just gets frustrating to be offering advice to someone who is confused, and then have someone else add a contrary and incorrect opinion into the discussion to help confuse things further. I appologise.

CichlidKid: Human multi vitamins are fine for the Oscar's. If you are going to use crushed multi-V, you will need to disolve it in water and then soak the Oscars food in it. Why? Vitamins are inherently 'unstable' and will just disolve or pass away in the water without effect. If you put it in the Oscars food, by soaking his pellets in it, you will find less is passed to the water and more to the Oscar's belly!

As for the pea's: Just shell them, frozen, split them in half to make them a more digestable size (if your Oscar is <6" and toss them in the water above his head, once you have his attention. There is no need to cook them, as they will sink anyway. The only reason to remove the pea husk is because the fish can not digest it, so they spit it out and it bio-degrades in your tank (increasing your nitrates). No need to wash, cook or mash etc.

How are your tank parameters today? (ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate)

Less arguing over what consumes what and help the person that needs it.

Discuss the finer points on another thread if you wish.

---

Before you criticize someone walk a mile in their shoes. That way you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

also is it safe to give the oscar VERY VERY VERY small crushed up portions of human vitamin tablets?

wouldn't do it, you won't know if the oscar eats it or not, and even if the oscar does eat it, it most likely won't help it
well thats what I would think..

I guess I did mix up all that stuff. My bad, but I dont really see WHY YOU HAVE TO TYPE LIKE THIS and seem like its the end of the world.

Sorry about my one mixup, three if you like to be obnoxious.

Nitrite is chemical. Amonnia is *consumed* by Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter, and converted to Nitrite. Nitrtie is a Nitrogen molecule, with two part oxygen for one part nitrogen i.e. NO2. This is CLEARLY not a strain of life, and is not a carbon based molecule, which the bacteria are.

So... AMONNIA IS NOT CONSUMED BY NITRITES, IT IS CONVERTED TO NITRITE'S BY THE BACTRERIA YOU MENTIONED. This is totally different to what you seem to keep arguing, and totally oposed to what you have written to support your argument. Perhaps, Inko, you had best spend some time reviewing chemistry and the various cycle explainations that are published on the web. What you are saying is the same as saying Penicillin and Penicillium are the same thing. They are not. One is a bacteria and one is a product resulting from the bacteria.

"1st... the Nitrites are a RESULT of the bacteria that lives on the ammonia, NOT a name for the bacteria that eats the ammonia. "

Ammonia is consumed by nitrites (basically nitrosomona and nitrobacteria).

The way its converted is the ammonia is consumed. Consumed is basically eat, isnt it?

"....Normally, Ammonia is consumed
by two species of beneficial bacteria, Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter..." From http://www.aquariumpharm.com/articles/ammonia2.asp

my oscar is sick the person @ petco said he has hole in the head or hith but the holes are under his jaw.he asked me if they are on his head, i replied yes but they arent really holes they look like white spots,is this the start that has not developed yet or is it just white spots or ich or scales that may have been lost.

Umm... that post just confuses the issue further, InkoDinko.

1st... the Nitrites are a RESULT of the bacteria that lives on the ammonia, NOT a name for the bacteria that eats the ammonia. If you are confused about this 'cycle' thing, Chilid Kid, have a read of the Beginner and General Articles on this site. It will help clear some things up for you.

2nd... i've never had an issue using ammo-lock on a tank with an established cycle and where a regular water change regime is maintained under decent filtration. Regardless, the ammonia once ionised (ionized for the people in the US), is not directly harmful to the fish. It WILL still show up on test kits, so keep that in mind while testing and use it as an indication of your cycle status. It is VERY important, especially with the problems being present, that Chilid Kid starts to do regualr water changes and assess his filtration for adequacy. The most important thing to watch at present, is your Nitrate levels.

3rd... It's generally accepted throughout the Cichlid community that HITH is caused due to a number of things. Most commonly for begginers, it will be poor water quality and diet. In some instances, it is due to the Hexamita parasite. Do not start treating for this parasite as a first course of action. Have a read of the 50 or so articles you will find on the web, from various sources, that all indicate HITH is related to Hexamita, poor water and vitamin defficiency. Specifically, Vitamin B, C and D. Although your primary course of action for treating HITH should be to improve dramatically your water quality, it is beneficial to the fish to start treating for a vitmain defficiency as well. It is also a good idea to regularly feed Pea's as part of your fish diet to keep the fish 'regular' (pooing). It is NOT meant to be a main diet, and long term you should be using a good pellet food as your fish's staple diet, but for immediate action that HITH requires, i highly recommend you treat for a vitamin defficiency. As i said earlier, when i first got my Oscars, i went through the exact thing you are now, and resolved it using exactly the methods i have described in my posts. I also spoke to my LFS owner, a Cichlid keeper of some 20+ years experience, and he agreed that Pea's are a very good suppliment to any cichlids diet. Infact, he feeds his pea's regularly. Mine get pea's 1-2 times a week, and i use a pellet for the remainder of the week.

4th... Chilid Kid, you still need to POST you Ammonia, Nitirte and Nitrate levels. Stop trying to use chemicals to deal with them, and use good water quality. This means good filtration and regular water changes. The Ammonia locking products (ammo-lock etc.) should only be used to treat water you are adding to your tank as a replacement, and then only if you don't have the facilities to age the water yourself by letting it sit for a day or two.

5th... Liquid vitamin are available from health food shops and super markets. I recall paying about $9AUD (about $6US) for a 400ml container with high concentrations of vitamins B, C and D. Thats all you need.

Ammo lock may be the reason behind all of this. Ammo lock locks up the ammonia, but it is still present in the tank. This means the carbon may be absorbing up that ammonia, or the nitrites eating the "locked" ammonia, but there is still new ammonia entering.

Ammo lock is notoriously known to be the cause of ammonia and nitrite spikes. high amounts of ammonia is usually the cause of hold in the head disease.

Try to cut back on the ammo lock and doing regular water changes. For you I would reccomend about 30% daily.

Forget giving supplements, a high quality food is the best way to go (I always reccomend hikari cichlid staple). If you want, you can give krill to your oscar as a TREAT, giving too much increases the amount of waste production and also makes the fish very picky in what it chooses to eat.

What size tank and what's the filter?

ok first off i think i made a mistake my guppies tank is at 2.o and the o`s is at about.5 and i use ammo-carb.
i will stop feeding him for a few days so he will accept peas. also what are some names of a multi vitamin that includes vits. B C and D and what is the cost about in the US thanks.
if it is more then 10 US dollars ill stick w/the peas.

OK... first thing - STOP adding all of those chemicals to your water. There is no need if you have a decent filter and do regular water changes. Second - anything above 0.5ppm of Ammonia can be fatal. If you are using Ammolock, don't concern yourself with this yet, as the ammonia is in an ionised form that will not hurt your fish. Keep an eye on the ammonia, and it should start to drop over the next to weeks as your cycle re-establishes itself. Also, it might be a good idea to add some "new inproved cycle" (U.S forum memebers swear by the stuff!) to kick start your cycle and add the good bacteria that will reduce your ammonia.

The addative you are putting in for Nitrites and Nitrates is a BAD idea. Stop using it, your wasting your money and it wont be good for the fish. Just do regualr water changes and monitor the nitrates. You will find that removing water in 10-15% amounts every week once your cycle has started and nitrates are controlled will keep them at or below 10ppm. This is very acceptable for Oscars. The large water change, as suggested by Signal20, is a VERY BAD idea. Don't do it again, or you run the risk of making your Oscar ill or killing it. Or any other fish for that matter. Always use a maximum of a 50% water change, and if you do such a large change, make sure the water is matched to the water in the tank for pH and temperature. Don't forget to do a gravel vacuum with EVERY water change to remove all of the uneaten food and Oscar waste.

As for your Oscar not eating the Pea's... this is the first time i've ever heard of it. What have you been feeding him before? I'd persist with feeding him just peas for the next few days. If he's been getting 'spoilt' by regular feeding of live food, then he will turn his nose up at the pea's. BUT: He will be hungry in a day or two, and will eat whatever you offer him. As an alternative to the Pea's, try soaking some of his favourite pellet food in a good quality multi vitamin. The food should be aldante - soft but not mushy. I found soaking Hikari pellets in a multi-V for about 3 minutes will achieve his result. Then feed him the pellets one at a time, until he's had his fill. One of my Oscars didn't like the 'smell' of the vitamin food, and thats why i used pea's. They work a treat, but sometimes you need to stop feeding the fish for a day or so and then he'll eat what he's given. Dont worry... it wont hurt him not to eat for a day or two, thats how they live in the wild anyway.

I suggest if you have been regularly feeding live food, you reduce your feeding of it to once or twice a week at the most. This will greatly improve the nitrate situation, and also help with the HITH.

[span class="edited"][Edited by jester_fu 2004-08-24 19:51][/span]

my Ammonia was anywhere from .5-2.0 it was hard to tell as the colors are close,my nitrites are @.25,and i did use nitraban to remove nitrates.

any other i deas for vit. B C and D as he hated the paes and just spit them out i did shell them to.

How long has your tank been set up? It sounds like it's still cycling or going through a mini cycle, ammonia & nitrites should be 0. Jester gave good info on the treatment, I've had success with the pellets soaked in a liquid multi vitamin. As a preventitive, I do that a couple times a week.

Ditto the cannister filter in addition to what you currently have for extra filtration.

I wouldn't recommend the large water changes like that. It'll stress the fish more, temp and ph changes. Do smaller ones, 20-30% daily till the tank finishes it's cycle. Then get on a weekly/twice a week water change schedule. I'm not real familiar with ammo-lock, but I'd try to avoid using the chemicals, it'll only prolong the cycling time of the tank-which will increase the stress for the fish & the work you have to do. And, I think you'll still get an ammo reading when using ammo-lock, it just neutralizes the ammo to a different form.

Also, if by any chance you're using feeders to feed him, stop. Feeders aren't good/nutritious for them, and can carry diseases, & they're messy. Some people rely strictly on feeding feeders, and don't vary their diets. This can lead to HITH also. Vary their diets with pellets, frozen/freeze dried brine shrimp, blood worms, krill, spirulina, peas, etc. with pellets being the main staple. Good luck, & keep us updated on how he's doing!!

i did a massive water chande 80-85% or maybe even 90%.
my ammonia should not be high as i use ammo-lock to nuetrealize it. my nitrites were up alot but now the should be low from the water change.i never before checked for nitrates because i never had a problem before but now i do.i have nitraban to take and reduce nitrates out of the water which i used for a very short time w/ my oscar(as i said before never before had a prob.) and i used it in my guppies and tetra tank util i gut plants but now ill use somein my o`1s tank and i was planning on doing a water change 2night then i will put some in i will try peas if we have them.ill get the water perims. back to all of you tonight when i change some water in my tank.