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My cories have been more active today and I fed them the anti parasite food. I also added in a bit of salt. Some still are breathing really rapidly.

Ok after reading the symptoms of velvet, I think the fish could be affected by velvet? That would explain the heavy breathing. I originally thought it was velvet a long time ago. I am getting sick of medicating my tank, but if it is infact velvet what meds are recomendable?

EDIT- I also remember treating for velvet using something called Nox-ich and it contained machalite green (sp?). I remeber that didn't solve the problem.

Last edited by ericm at 31-Jan-2005 12:24

Most ich/velvet meds are hard on cories.

Rid Ich Plus at half strength is what I would try. Or Coppersafe at half strength. Don't mix anything with copper in it, with anything that contains formalin or malachite green.

The key with scaleless fish is to go half strength.

I have treated for velvet a while ago at half strength. What are the most common effects from it? Other than rapid breathing and a goldish dusting?

They flash and flick against objects. I wouldn't rush to treat for velvet as all meds are harsh on cories. I'd watch. )

WOOPS! Did I say to the right of that spot . I;m sorry about that. It is normal for cories to be a bit crazy right? Will they dart around the tank when scared? I think I am just gonna do my regular water change and mantainance and see how things are.

- All cories will dart if they get startled and they startle quite easily. Someone on this site once likened it to "cories on speed"

Might be a good idea. Give your tank and them a rest. Watch for flashing and scraping. Keep in mind it is normal for them to sometimes scrape or bang their gills on the substrate while sifting. As long as it is occassional, you can probably write it off to something just getting stuck in the gill. Unlike other fish that spit food out after breaking it down, cories sift and blow it out their gills. Things hang up in there and that's when they go nutso. Mine will do a sideways slam to get it unstuck, then go on about business as if it never happened. The key is occassional - not flashing that can be seen throughout the day and several times in a few minutes.

Well they spend most of their time in their cave. When they do come out its usually for food or sometimes i see the lone cory or 2 grazing the bottom. Maybe I am just over reactign a bit? The darting is normal and they only do that if something scares them. But what really wories me is the rapid breathing. Sometimes it goes so fast. I am just gonna do my tank mantainance tomorrow, it's due for a cleaning and see how it is from there. What also concerns me is the spots on some of the cories. I'll check to see if they have improved.

I just retested parameters and they are as follows :

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5-10
pH. Steady at 7.6
Temp 26C (79F)

Everything seems fine and I still have to do my water change today.

On the rapid breathing, try to take note if it is soon after they have had a heavy meal or if it is constant throughout the day. I have panicked many a time when I saw a cory breathing heavily, then I had read that if they have a really full belly, it will make they breath fast.

As long as you see some periods of more relaxed breathing, things are good.

Also, make sure they aren't chewing. I've made that mistake too. If they have found a little treasure, they'll stop and chew and it sometimes looks like rapid breathing.

My ottos are doing the same now. They dart around the tank when scared. Is this normal?

Absolutely, normal for otos. You can be looking at an oto on the glass one minute, then blink and wonder where he went - all the while you wonder why debris was stirred in some corner of the tank, only to spot him hiding there

That's good then, I thought they weren't scared very easily but i guess i was wrong. They also stay confined to their little area. It's kind of like their hang out, is this normal too? Just as my cories stay in their cave? I think the cories are doing better, so I am gonna hold off on any meds for now.

Good choice. They have remarkable abilities to recover from most anything, provided water quality is exceptional. A few extra water changes in the coming weeks would give them an extra boost.

I find the otos startle even more than the cories. They hold their ground, then are gone in the blink of an eye. Mine use to be on the glass and more outgoing. Even my cories would come out into the feeding corner I had. I even have pictures of it. I then added a thicket of fake silk plants to provide them with cover.

What happened next was natural - they hide all day now, both the otos and the cories make themselves very scarce. However, now that I'm home all day with that asthma, I see what times of the day they are active.

My cories are active around 7am for a short while, shortly after room lights go on. Then they nap. I don't see movement until around 2:00 in the afternoon, at which time they do the three stooges routine and go up and down the walls and so on. That may last a half hour or more, then they go into hiding again, until sometime after the tank light goes out.

Otos will come out in the open to feed only after the lights are out - not just tank lights, but often room lights too. I have just a dim light and I sneak down to see the activity.

This is all 200% natural as that is how they are in the wild. People try to get them to be active during the day. They are nocturnal.

My habrosus cories, on the other hand, are more diurnal. They are out and about and the opposite as the other cories. In fact, they nap about as little as the other cories are active. So some species can vary too.

My 3 trilineaus cories have been in seclusion for almost 2 full years and are healthy as can be. *knocks on wood*

Hope this helps

Thanks . I think that some of those spots are normal because a while ago i noticed that my cories had 2 symmetrical white marks on their body and I looked at the ones in the lfs and they had the same markings. I've also noticed that in pictures on the web the cories have similar spots around the gills. I also noticed that the rapid breating does stop and they only do it if they are startled and go crazy. It is like they are on speed! I am just gonna stick with the water changes and good water quility. Thanks for all your help.

You betcha! I remember going through all of what you are and I think it is great that you are paying such close attention to details involving your fish. Such practice can catch an early case of fungus. When cories go nuts, they can get injured. Those little scrapes can turn into infections like columnaris. Spending time in front of the tank and studying details in the fish helps you see what is normal and what is not. The early process does make you question alot tho. I know I did. Like I said, it was funny when that "ich" spot flew off the cory . I had a similar experience with the oto. When the oto flew to the other side of the tank he no longer had the spot . Cories have a gleen too and I found myself thinking one of those sparkles was ich or velvet, only to learn later, it was just them.

Incidentally, if you ever see a wound or fungus, immediately dose the tank with a combination of melafix and pimafix. Great stuff and doesn't affect the filter. There are many pathogens in the tank and once an opening is available, they can get sick, if stressed.

I know what you mean with that little sparkle type thing they have. Along their gills mine kinda have that blueish glimmer. I will have to get the melafix and pimafix. Well I think these spots I am seeing are just normal. They do usually have spots around the places i am seeing them which is i think where there bones show. The pics i showed you of that one cory, I now noticed he has the same spot on the other side. I think I am going to get 3 more ottos to make the others becoem a bit more active.I originally had 6 ottos and then a few died i replaced them more died and so on and i was left with these 3 that are doing good now (except for being occasionally hit by spastic cories). All my other fish in the tank are doing fine.

Have you read this on Otos?

[link=http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Bottom%20Feeder%20Frenzy/48796.html]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Bottom%20Feeder%20Frenzy/48796.html" style="COLOR: #C000C0[/link]

Comparing both sides of the fish is a good way to go. Things aren't always symmetrical, but can be a good way to rule something out, if you see it.

Diane

Your circle is to the left of what I thought was the white spot.

The Rid Ich Plus is up to you. If water quality is in line and the fish are still flashing, then that leaves parasites, if it is happening throughout the day. You've tried a product with Prazi in it and it did not stop it. In my mind, if heat is not an option (which I don't believe it is with cories), then the next step is something higher up on the scale with formalin - at half strength. I can't stress enough that most members here have used Rid Ich Plus without deaths (not that their conditions can't kill them, especially if their gills are affected). If you decide to do it, just do it when you can be home with them all day. Dose the half strength in the AM and watch them for the first half hour for any signs of jerking or darting. If they don't settle and are going nuts, or are disoriented, do a partial water change to dilute it. I have to say tho, that many here have used it with loaches and other catfish without a hitch at half strength.

If the fish are not flashing, you just may want to hold off, do more partial water changes, until next weekend and reassess. Really, you want to be home for two days.

If you have live plants in there, remove them if you can, temporarily. They won't like formalin or malachite.

So should I add an ich med??? I'll highlight where the spot is. Other cories have more of a yellowish spot.
EDIT: http://community.webshots.com/album/266579836ADlnft I added a new pic to show you where the spot i am talkin about is. It is hard to see but if you go back to one of the original photos after looking at the one i just added, I think you will be able to make it out. Ill try to get a pic of the other spots I am talkin about. Should I pick up some Rid Ich + and treat with that?

Last edited by ericm at 05-Feb-2005 11:33

It looks like a bronze cory to me too . I'm not a cory expert so you may want to post that link in the bottom feeder section. People love those "ID My Fish" posts

I thought you had added Nox-Ich? You mentioned they were getting pale and thought it was from that. This is the med I thought you had in the water. If you have had it in there since seeing the spot it will kill off freeswimmers looking for a host. That's the idea of early treatment - get them before they can all attach to a fish.

I couldn't see the black area. .

Make sure that white spot doesn't turn into something fuzzy. Keep an eye on it.

I don't know what you mean by "You already have an effective med in the water ", i haven't add any meds. The med that should be in the tank is the parasite clear that could still possibly be in there, so that's why I am going to run carbon first. The spot i was talking about wasn't that little white mark. It's the one beside that. The dark spot. It is kind of hard to see in those pics. And I havent seen that white spot before. Take a look at the first picture again and it's right above where his stripe begins. Since you are the expert could I also get you to ID that cory for me . I originally bought 6 cories that were labelled as blue cories (Corydoras nattereri), but the employee said for some reason the cories were more of a darker colour instead of blue. Then 3 of those cories died and I went back and picked up what was labelled as assorted cories. At first I thought they were the Corydoras nattereri, but after closer inspection I noticed they looked a lot like bronze cories. Sorry to get off topic, and I know that isn't a good pic since you can't see the whole cory, but I think that one there is a corydoras nattereri.

Ok - just looked at the pics. Are you talking about that one white spot on the head? I'd say inconclusive. Let's put it this way, if there is ich in that tank and one spot has landed on a cory, then there are many more in the water looking for a host. But guess what? You already have an effective med in the water at the time they are most vulnerable - when they are freeswimming. Even if that is an ich spot - if it is the only ich spot, then the only concern would be if it infects, but the malachite and salt will help prevent that.

Also, you may find that by tomorrow that one spot is gone. I've panicked more than once when a spot showed up on an oto or cory. Keep in mind they are stationary and stuff floating around has a habit of falling on them and staying there a few hours until they move fast enough for it to come off.

I watched one time, as I sweated it out, the cory went spastic as they sometimes do, looking like he was on 30 cups of coffee, and I watched as the "spot" flew off .

Excuse my redundant post above - I accidentally read your last post on page one where you asked what a cyst was .

I managed to snap a few pics of the one that has that dark spot on it but I couln't get a good shot of the other fish that has the yellowish spot. I got a few but you couldn't see the spot or the flash just reflected to much off the fish. Here's the pic of the other cory. Its kinda on the top left hand side of the fish.
http://community.webshots.com/album/266579836ADlnft

Please read the links I provided above, especially on ich life cycle. It explains the cyst stage of ich.

As I stated above, formalin is available in Rid Ich Plus, which also has a safer formula of malachite green. I don't know how that compares to Nox-Ich. Before switching, I would run activated carbon, after a water change, should you decide to do that.

I really can't help beyond that. Fish are flashing and showing apparent signs of ich. You are already on a path to treat ich. When the cyst falls, if that's what it is, the ich is not done. You will read in the lifecycle, it is only beginning. A single ich spot that has dropped to the bottom of the tank will develop into hundreds more that will look for a host. It is at this stage that ich medicine kills the parasite - NOT will it is on the fish. Unless you feel the stuff is harming your cories, I'd stick with it for now to see if that checks it. If after time it shows it is not helping, then my advice is to switch to Rid Ich Plus. If it was that toxic, it wouldn't be for sale. Just follow precautions on the box.

Wait until morning and drop some food in a corner and come back 15 minutes later - hopefully they are there

I recommended Formalin at half strength because we don't know what is doing it. Without skin and gill biopsies, we simply can't tell. However, if we assume a parasite is involved, the best course of action is to look at a med that will cover all of them. The only one is formalin. Copper is not effective for costia, as far as some of the latest literature is concerned, and minimally effective for ich. While it may not be pleasant to use, I suppose its a balancing act. Many people use Rid Ich Plus and don't have issues. I used it once on fish that appeared to have parasites. I have asthma and was not bothered by it. I sure didn't sniff the bottle. I think the cautions are there to let you know, you ought not be putting your fingers or nose directly in the bottle.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 04-Feb-2005 19:23

Oh wow. I'm a little bit confused on what to do now. So is this ich or velvet or something else? I'll lure the cories out with food and try to take a pic. This will be hard though kuz the slightest movement will scare them away. I don't think i can use a flash since that will scare them away also.

A pic may be necessary. If you can, take the pic at a slight angle to the glass, using flash, if it is blurry without.

Here's the thing tho - if those are ich cysts, the only thing your salt treatment will do is to possibly reduce the chance of infection, which is common from the bites. I'd just use plain melafix and/or Pimafix to counter that possibility, with a little salt in the tank to make sure they don't end up with osmotic shock from an electrolyte imbalance. (open wounds allow salt to leave their system and they end up with osmotic shock - salt in the water balances out in their system).

http://www.novalek.com/kpds.htm

Read this from the University of Florida Extension - an excellent resource on fish stuff. Not only is it good on the subject of ich, but discusses Malachite Green and its potential for cancer. The only thing I have a problem with in the article is their idea of running the tank at 90F for a specified time, followed by a drop to 70 for specified time, then back to 90, then back to 70. Dr. Edward J. Noga, Professor of Aquatic Medicine has written that temperature shock can happen with as little as a 3F change in 24 hours. His recommendation is to minimize it to 1F during 24 hours and in extreme cases where it is necessary to change the temp abruptly, no more than 1F per hour for a max of 4F in 24 hours, if I recall. Even then, it is highly risky. 4F down and you could end up with ich or velvet. 4F up and you could cause something like columnaris to bloom.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_FA006



Last edited by Cory_Di at 04-Feb-2005 17:03

Malachite green is also cancerous? I did not know that. Some of the cories seem to have whiteish spots which i am not sure what they are. Ill try to get a pic. I have used salt on the cories before. But i did not add it to the tank and I took them out and put them into a bucket and used less than a tablespoon of salt and left them in for half an hour. This seemed to work on them a while ago. Should i try doing the same?

EDIT: I am also seeing spots that are kinda the same colour as the cories but it has a kinda whitish outline around it and the spot is a bit darker i think. Is this a cyst?
Last edited by ericm at 04-Feb-2005 13:18

Last edited by ericm at 04-Feb-2005 14:48

Here is an explanation of the ich lifecycle and it should explain the cyst. Meds don't remove the cyst and are only effective when the parasite is in the free swimming stage so do read it. Maintain your current direction and see where it leads.

http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/disease/freshwater/ich.html

Formalin is a key component in Rid Ich Plus, one of the best ich and parasite meds on the market. It has a safer form of malachite green so is tolerated a little better by sensitive fish, even at more normal doses from what I understand. But I'd still go half strength if you ever go that route.