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Well ive had success with this form of treatment.. agreed it can be harmfull but so can Formaldehyde and malachite green.. it also depends on what type of fish u are treating.. if u have cold water fish then u dont raise the temp as high. Salt tollorant fish can handel higher doses of salt. again (as with everything in the fish world) everyone has their own opinion. ive just had better luck with this. here is a link that explains a lil of the lifecycle and how medicating the tank effects the Ich itself
http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/IchPrevention.html
another great site on ich
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml

Again good luck and keep us posted with results 8-)
-CJ

Glad we could help

I think that I'm ok now, too many complications for moving so I hope the idea slowly dies.They didnt quite realize how complicated moving my aquarium would actually be. But thank you for all the advice, I'll need it sooner or later.

Make a new thread to make sure you get good advice. Don't move a tank with water in it. For now I will suggest that if you don't get advice quick enough in the other thread, I'll give you some pointers, but others have done this, I havent'. Unplug everything and empty the filter reservoir. I would siphon as much water as possible into a rubbermaid bin as possible (never use a bin where chemicals or detergents were stored or used), then transfer the fish into that water (good process as it is same temp - no stress). If you have a biowheel, put it in the water with the fish to keep it moist. Don't stir the gravel in the process of taking this water. Drain off the remaining 25-30% after fish are out, cleaning the gravel (slower siphoning allows you to do more). Remove any large, heavy objects, then move the tank with two people supporting both ends (you never want to create potential for twist or torsion as it can weaken seals). Put a fake plant or two in there from the main tank to keep them calm. Make sure there are two people to carry the rubbermaid bin.

Using a siphon, start putting water back into the tank from the container with the fish and stop just before you get too low for the fish. Use two nets to corale them each and move them to the tank one by one. Once they are all in the tank, start adding same temp, conditioned water. If you were able to keep at least 70% of the water, then add another 15% followed by the last 15% about half hour apart to make it less stressful. The key to avoiding ich is not to alter that tank temp more than +/-1F in the process.

All in all, it should be done and over with in about 2 hours max. Always rinse your pump right before putting it back on the tank and filling it. Good bacteria in reservoirs use up remaining oxygen in the water, then bad bacteria grows. When the pump goes back on, it can spew bad bacteria into the tank and make fish sick. I do the same in power outages - shutting the filter so I can rinse before turning back on when power returns (if it is out one hour or more according to Marineland).

Make that other post and see if anyone else has better ideas.

I thought it would be good to update you on the tank. The day before Christmas eve my grandfather got me some RidIch Plus(they had gone to the city the day before. The day before that I was forced to use the other meds. So the tank has now been medicated with the good stuff and everything seems to be going well. One otto has died (the one that never looked too good) and one platy has also gone (she looked terrible, I don't think it had anything to do with the ich.

But now I have another problem, I have to move the tank tommorow to our kitchen! My parents have decided that my room needs to be given to my younger brother and I will move out to a new room in the upstairs of our garage. Its much nicer but there is no running water and its detached from our house. So the only place for my aquariums to go is in the kitchen/dining room. I'm making a plan and I'm going to search the threads for advice. I will probably start another thread about it. Or is it ok to start that question here?

Did you check the ingredients in Ich Guard 2? Do they match Rid Ich Plus?

The white patch on the back, could be what is called saddleback lesion. It is caused by the columnaris bacteria, one of the more common infections. Some of the meds you are using are mildly antiseptic and may help.

Watch your ammonia with these meds. No sense fixing the infestation, only to kill fish with an ammonia spike or mini-cycle.

Yes, I have a dose of ridich from yesterday.

Tonight I did another water change, put in a little less than a teaspoon of my last bit of RidIch, and then medicated with less than a teaspoon of Ick Guard. That was nearly an hour ago and all the fish (even the ottos) seem fine. One otto isnt doing so hot, he has had a white patch on his back since I got him. But all the others are swimming with raised fins, schooling, and eating normally.
*Hopefully* I will be able to get more ridich soon or at least some Ick Guard 2. There is another petstore about 30 minutes from here that im going to check/call tommorow. They are rather pathetic and I doubt they will have it.

I can tell you two things I've learned! 1)always quarentine new fish and 2)always have a good supply of ich medication on hand especially when you live a good 2 hours from an available source

We need to be careful here, if the Jungle Ich Med contains any form of copper. If there is no copper and the ingredients are basically the same, then it shouldn't be a problem mixing. You already have one dose of Rid Ich Plus in there, right?

The Jungle ich meds will do the job...

It's better to lose one fish than to lose them all to ich. Treat as soon as possible with the med that's available and don't drive that distance.

--garyroland.

Please help!! I need to know whether or not to use the ich guard meds. I might be able to get RidIch+ in a couple of days. Is it safe to switch meds around like that?

With the bubble wand in there the water is very aerated and plus I have a penguin bio-wheel 170 on it which also helps. So I'm going to raise the temp a little if I can get more RidIch+!! My local petstore only sells the ich med from jungle but I dont want to use it. Do you think I should since I have nothing else? Will it be as good? I might be able to convince my dad to take a quick 2 hour trip to the nearest Petco. He did, after all, borrow a small generator just for my aquariums when the power went out once...so hopefully he might consider this. I can't loose my Angel!!

And Im not going to risk doing a salt bath

Thanks so much for the help!! I think I caught this pretty quickly so it hasn't advanced too far.

Edit: There is no way that I'll be able to get Rid-Ich today of for a couple of days for that matter! All I have available is Jungle Ich Guard. Is it better than nothing?!?
Last edited by pippin at 20-Dec-2004 14:30

Last edited by pippin at 20-Dec-2004 17:07

malachite green worked well for me, salt baths made it SEEM to go away, but it came back a weak later with a vengeance... In MY opinion, rid ich is the way to go

You may want to increase surface movement with airstones or heightening the power of your filter (if possible), but when I was a total newbie I didn't know how to do either, and I didn't lose anybody. Good luck.

There are probably a hundred threads about this but it won't let me do a search and I need help soon!

I just (as in the last 15 minutes) noticed that some of my platies have white spot. I believe it is due to the ottos I just got last week (darn things, i knew they were too good to be true!). Can I medicate with them (the ottos) in there?

Here's my stock list: 29 gallon with 5 ottos, 1 small angelfish, 5 zebra danios, and 10 platies (only 3 are adults). The heater is set at 79 F.

Today is Sunday so I can't go buy any ich meds. I do have a very small amount of RidIch+ left. I dont think it is enough to treat the entire tank. I also have a little bit more of Ick Guard by Jungle. Can I combine the two for a dose today until I can buy more tommorow?

I REALLY want to save the angelfish at least!! I have a 15 gallon with one small goldfish and I am strongly considering puting him in an empty tank and the angel in the 15 until everything clears up. The 15 gallon has a heater and bio-wheel 330 on it. I might even put the zebra danios and a couple platies in there (the ones that show no ich). The angel shows no signs of ich either, no spots and acting perfectly healthy. I DO NOT want to loose him!!

I find it strange that salt, after all these years, is mentioned to stop ich...

It doesn't.

Salt baths were used many years ago before ich meds were developed and killed more fish than they cured.

--garyroland.

I know people swear rid-ich is a good treatment and im not here to say its an unhealthy way to treat ich.. but i would like to mention an alternative to these chemicals..

First off even if u use rid-ich.. always if possible use full dose.. by using a 1/2 dose you only kill the weakest version of this parasite, basicly by doing this u are selectivly breading a stronger more tolorant version of ich.

as for an alternative to ridich.. why not go for the old fashion saltbath.. ive had alot of success with this technique. 2-3 even Table Spoons (not teaspoons) per 10g. raising the temp is a great idea as long as u add an airstone.. or if one is not availible lower the water lvl so ur filter makes ALOT of surface agitation. By raising the temp to 84-86F your probly not going to kill the ich but what u do is speed up its life cycle. ich is vulnerable in one stage of its life.. free swimming.. so once the ich starts to drop off is when its most important to make sure u are at full treatment.. continue treatment for about 10 days after the last signs of ich have disipeared. i would also suggest 50% water changes every other day durring this period. its not possible to remove all the ich from a tank just with water changes but it should keep it from spreading to other fish as quickly

Also on a preventive note here..
Buy a 10 or 20 gal tank and have a Quarinteen tank.. this is a MUST have.. ive broke this rule twice my self and both times had an ich problem. now i always QT for full 14days.


Best of luck with the Ich problem.. weve all had one at sometime.. i really hope whatever treatment u use works.
Good luck!!!!
-CJ

increase the temp to 84 F for a day or two and then bring it down and keep it constant at 80-82 F for 2 weeks. Use the meds as per instructions only.
with this temp, ick life cycle comes to Hrs from days and the white spots will soon start dissappearing.
99% ick go away at 82-86 F but there is a rare strain of ick which can survive even 90 F. This is a recent finding by some American Univ. But as I said its rare.

Pippin, you may want to invest in a bottle of this type of ammonia reader. It is much cheaper, provides many more testing opportunities and is easier to read. The ammonia issue is critical 0.25 is not good. Hopefully, it was zero and just hard to read as such.

On this first link, scroll down to see the ammonia test kit and note the gold tone of yellow. I'll provide a second link with another ammonia kit that AP makes that you should not buy. It is more like a lemon yellow. It does not give the ability to read 0.25, rather it goes straight to 0.5.

Good AP Ammonia Kit [link=http://www.popular-freshwater-tropical-fish.com/store/test-kits.htm]http://www.popular-freshwater-tropical-fish.com/store/test-kits.htm" style="COLOR: #C000C0[/link]

Ammonia Kit NOT to get [link=http://www.petluvers.com/AquariumPharmaceuticalsFreshwaterAmmoniaTestKit.html]http://www.petluvers.com/AquariumPharmaceuticalsFreshwaterAmmoniaTestKit.html" style="COLOR: #C000C0[/link]

If you see your fish getting sick from the Rid Ich Plus, then do a partial water change to dilute it.

How big is this tank? You don't need to heat the water. Just put some in a bucket a couple days before a water change, or even overnight. Then, set the bucket in a few inches of hot water (like in a laundry tub). Stir the water after about 3 minutes and check the temp with the same tank's thermometer. Keep checking every few minutes until you have the water temp in the bucket within about 3 degrees. For a small water change, this will not drop the tank temp more than +/- 1F.

Trust me, a drop of 3-4F or more can bring on ich. This is one way it happens. Fish don't self regulate their body temps like we do. It is set by the environment. Imagine your body temp dropping from 98.6 to 95.6 in a matter of minutes. That is what happens to our fish when we drop their water temp rapidly.

There's no known harm to raising temps when dosing Rid Ick Plus, Formulin or no...

I did forget to mention the surface movement of tank water must be increased to produce a quicker gas exchange.

Many times, more often than I care to mention, Rid Ick has failed to kill the ich parasite without raising the temp of tank water, no matter what the product claims.

--garyroland.


Last edited by garyroland at 19-Dec-2004 20:30

I just did a large water change and put in 2 teaspoons of medication. I also put in a bubble wand from my goldfish tank, it spans nearly the entire tank. The fish seem to be doing fine, they are beging for food like normal!!

The ammonia is between 0 and .25 (I have the dip strips and its hard to determine. The tab is yellow but not as bright yellow as the chart shows for 0)

The nitrite is 0.

How can I possibly get the water changes to +-1 degrees? I dont have a spare heater to warm up a bucket of water. I have always done changes by guess work .

Edit: Yikes, maybe 2 teaspoons was too much. Also, that link was very helpful. Thanks!!

Last edited by pippin at 19-Dec-2004 17:42

Ok, I havn't done anything yet. I'm going to do a 25% water change and use all the rid-ich I have (which will be less than recomended dose). No temperature change and I'll try to get an airstone tommorow when I buy more RidIch+. Thank You!!