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I recently bought my boyfriend a 29 gallon aquarium. I purchased my fish from a department store and a pet store. (I had 3 mollies, 3 guppies, two angels, two gouramis, algae eater, and 3 tetras) Being ignorant, I didn't realize that the spot on the tail of one of my mollies was Ich when I purchased him. By the time I knew something was wrong, the Ich had spread and killed my molly and two guppies. I started treatment with a cheap Ich medicine, which didn't work. I then tried Coppersafe, then Ick Away. I raised the temperature up to 80 degrees and supplemented the medicine with aquarium salt. One by one my fishes died. ]:| I am down to two guppies in which i'm keeping in a small tank being treated with Ick Away. I removed the water from my aquarium and put HOT HOT water in. It's been at 85 degrees for a couple of days now. What I'm nervous about is getting Ich again. I need to know when it would be ok to put new fish in. Also, when I should introduce my last two survivors back to the main tank. This whole ordeal has hit my pocketbook very hard and I want to make sure I'm ok this time. All the articles on this site have helped, but I need some more advice. Thank you all for your fishy wisdom!!!

I've got a fever... and the only prescription... is more cowbell!

Sorry you are having such a bad experience and welcome to fishprofiles.com

While it is very important to get stock from good pet stores and carefully analyze all tank mates, there are other issues that must be considered.

A new tank should be set up and running for several days or a week before adding any fish. From there, only a small school of hardy fish should be added while the tank undergoes a process called "cycling". Fish waste, food, and fish respiration build toxicities. Ammonia is the first to be seen and an ammonia kits helps us to see this. In response to the ammonia, a good bacteria develops that eats the ammonia. This produces a second toxin called nitrIte. A second bacteria develops that controls that. The final product is nitrAte. This is less toxic and is reduced with water changes. I do them weekly as I am at max stock. What I described is the "nitrogen cycle.". It kills. Products such as BioSpira, Stress Zyme, New and Improved Cycle all add these good bacteria to the water to speed it up.

What I believe happened is that:

A) Bad Stock

B) STocked up too quickly in a tank that was not cycled resulting in a deadly ammonia spike within the first few days/week. Stressed fish were vulnerable to ich parasite in water.

C) Fish were exposed to rapid change in temp (good rule of thumb is to not expose them to more than 1-2F change/24 hours). When we first bring fish home we float the bag 30 minutes to equalize temp of bag water and tank water.

D) Rapid changes with chemicals being added, salinity, etc.

The fish you had were really not a good mix and some fish had too much growth potential for that size. Angels grow to about 5 inches in diameter in the correct size tank (minimum 40-55 gallons with a trio or more for schooling).

Guppies, mollies, and platy's are live bearers. They don't call guppies millions fish for nothing. They can overpopulate a tank in a matter of months, unless there are fish in the tank that will control the population and you are comfortable with that.

Let's start slow. You have two fish left. If your tank is up and running, without fish, then let it run empty for a good 10 days with the temp set at 85-90 to kill off ich. Ich needs a host and any new hatchers will not be able to find one and will die.

Then, add your two fish to the tank along with some Cycle, Stress Zyme, Bio Spira or whichever you can find. Work with people on this site as to what you should add once you have cycled the tank (meaning you are reading 0 ammonia and nitrite, and nirates are rising). At that time, only add 3-4 small fish and wait a few weeks again.

All water changes should be done so as not to alter the temp of the tank more than 1-2F daily. Fish do not self regulate their temp and a 4-5 degree drop or elevation in a short period is a very big deal. It would be like your body temp dropping from 98.6 down to 93.6 in minutes. This is what happens to them. Their temp matches the environment.

More reading: Nitrogen Cycle on FishProfiles.com

Good luck and stick with it!!!

Diane




Last edited by Cory_Di at 17-Oct-2004 20:27

Hi and welcome.....

Starting a new hobby can be exciting, but at the same time turn really ugly when things go bad. Keeping fish can be really rewarding, don't let this discourage you. You said you read through some articles here, did you manage to read the FAQ on cycling a tank. Here's a linkhttp://www.fishprofiles.net/faq/begin-cycling.asp and some of the other FAQ are really good to read.
There might be more than the ick doing the damage. NTS (new tank syndrome) may be killing a greater portion of the fish. Can you take a water sample to a LFS(local fish store) and bring back the result for us, this is really important. How long has the tank been setup? for. Do not add any more fish at this time. Are you conditioning the water when you add, chlorine or chlorimane in the tapwater is very fatal to fish. I suggest read the articles and FAQ on starting a tank and talk to an KNOWLEDLGABLE lfs employee. Good luck.

Oh - and don't play with your pH if you have bought pH altering products.

Rather, ask the fish store to show you the pH of their tank with a test. If it tests to the high side of a normal pH tester (like 7.6), then request a high pH test to see if it is actually more like 7.8 or 8.0 or more. Ditto if it reads on the low side.

Compare this to your new tank which has been running a few days. You can take water with you to the pet store and request they check it the same way. Write the numbers down.

Now, pH can come out of a tap source low initially, then rise or lower 24 hours later as gases in the water equalize with the surrounding atmosphere. Many municipalities put co2 in the water. Mine reads 7.0 out of the cold tap, but rises to 8.0 24 hours later with a bubbler/airstone in the water. This is because the excess co2 phizzes out causing the pH to rise. All fish stores in my area have fish tanks that run 7.8 to 8.0. All fish stores in my area carry fish that ordinarily like more neutral or acidic water (7.0 or lower). However, fish acclimate to pH outside of their "book ranges", especially when they have been bred locally.

In general, fish should not be exposed to more than a 0.2 change in 24 hours. If you see a difference greater than this between the store and your tank, we can give you methods of acclimation that are slower. pH swings and changes can kill fish faster than many other things. pH altering products often cause swings (fixes it initially, then it yoyo's back up). There are reasons for this and if you need to know, there are plenty of us nerds here that can get into it if need be. )

The scientific approach to aquarium keeping results in far fewer fish losses. I learned, from this site, about cycling, water chemistry, fish compatibility, etc. Testing, to me, is a necessary part of learning about the process.

- A word about bottom feeders and algae eaters. They go in last after the tank is well "seasoned" and "fishy". Without the kind of scales that other fish have, they are the most vulnerable to cycling toxins. Also, algae eaters require algae and it can take a good month or two to get a crop going. They still need supplemental feeding of algae wafers every other day, as well. These fish are also very sensitive to common parasite meds. Many have to be used at half strength. Ditto for salt.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 17-Oct-2004 20:36

Last edited by Cory_Di at 17-Oct-2004 20:39

Thanks for the help! Yes, I have been using a water conditioner for the chlorine and chloromine. One of the employees I talked to said that the PH levels in this area are usually ok. Another symptom I observed was the fading or brownish color on the gouramis before they died. I also noticed that a cloudy film was forming on the eyes of the fish. I really hope that I can turn this whole experience around. I have come quite attached to the fish and feel like a "bad mom" for letting this happen. I will cycle my tank for another week then let you know how things go. Also, I know a lot of you members have varying tastes on fish species, and I'd like some reccomendations on chosing different fish that would suit my tank better. I dont want to blow my whole wad on one fish, so they'd have to be inexpensive, colorful, not high maitenance. I'm willing to do the work, dont get me wrong, but I'd rather not have a tank of goldfish! Thank you all very much for your help. I'd like to thank my friend who has a membership here who reccomended you. Thanks again!

I've got a fever... and the only prescription... is more cowbell!

When you say you will let your tank "cycle" another week, did you mean you were going to hold it at a high temp, empty, to kill off any remainin ich? Or, did you mean to enable it to go through the nitrogen cycle I described?

Please clarify.

What you saw on the gourami could certainly have been infection spreading. However, cycling toxins - ammonia and nitrite - can produce a myriad of symptoms that can appear to be an infection. Ammonia burns and nitrite can short-change oxygen uptake into the blood stream. It can damage the gills.

I strongly recommend purchasing an ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate kit so that you can watch the cycle take place. You can understand when toxins are present, how high they are (to take corrective actions), and to know when it is complete so you can add more fish.

Aquarium Pharmaceuticals offers the most economic testers and they are easiest to read. They will last a year.

You won't find them any cheaper than you see here. I recommend the individual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, or the Deluxe master kit, with an individual nitrate.

[link=http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4454&N=2004+113074]http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4454&N=2004+113074" style="COLOR: #C000C0[/link]

You can order by phone and they will send you a catalog, as well. They are highly reputable and I've been buying from them for two years now, online.

Diane

I was going to run heated at 85 degrees for a few more days then let it cycle. Hopefully I'll find some bacteria at the store. WE've got a Walmart, Petco, and another store in the area.

I've got a fever... and the only prescription... is more cowbell!

I would also make sure that you get yourself a testing kit!!!! Make sure you at least can test the Ph, NitrAte and NitrItes!!! Will help you figure out your cycle much better!!!

72 gallon bowfront:Tanganyikan Lake set up
75 gallon: A. Baenschi trio,Cyanotilapia Afra Cobwe(4), copadichromis trewavase, protomelas sp. tangerine tiger(breeding pair)

Tank requires an ammonia source (i.e. fish). There is a fishless cycling method. If you make a separate post under the Getting Started forum or Water Quality forum about fishless cycling, someone will tell you how to go about it. It must be done with ammonia that has no dyes, scents, or added detergents.

Bacteria added to an empty tank will simply starve.