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I posted a week ago when one of my fish was sick and died, and it looked like a case of new tank syndrome. I have just bagged my second fatality and am closely screening another that seems on the edge.

The newest symptoms are fin erosion, cloudy eyes, discoloration, blood streaks, and what I can only describe as "face melt," where the mouth and face seem to be eroding. My second death was an albino cichlid, and an hour after death looks more orange than anything. I have no clue what this could be, but am frightened that it could be something serious like velvet.

The tank is still cycling, and the parameters are currently: Ammonia .25, nitrite .5, nitrate 0, pH 7.6, KH 5.

I have learned that this tank used to house a saltwater puffer, and am unsure if any toxins could be left after meticulously cleaning the tank. I have 3 healthy cichlids left, and one that holds all the above symptoms. Somebody PLEASE help me save my tank!!!! :#(:#(

Sorry about the bad experience Harley.

How was the tank "diligently cleaned"?

The fish in there aren't cycle-hardy, and cloudy eyes, redness, discoloration can all be signs of ammonia. It is not unexpected for fish deaths, given the numbers, especially if they are enduring it for days or longer.

To battle the remaining ammonia, you could dose the tank with Prime or Amquel Plus. They will also help with the nitrite. While they may prolong the cycle, they may make it livable for the time being. Don't overdose either as they can steal oxygen. I like to use just 1 drop per gallon every 12 hours for a few shots to start. You may get a false positive ammonia reading, but the ammonia won't be as harmful.

There should be a small amount of freswater aquarium salt in the tank to inhibit nitrite uptake into the bloodstream. One teaspoon/5 gallons, predissolved and added slowly over the day should ease your cories into it.

While the effects you are describing sound like illness, the ammonia and nitrite have likely lowered their ability to fight off the bugs, and ammonia can cause symptoms that appear infection-like. Putting medicine in the tank will only make matters worse. If you have a spare tank, you could isolate the worst in there and treat with something more aggressive. Otherwise, I would dose the tank with a combination of Melafix and Pimafix. These are botanicals and won't hurt your biofilter.

I'm just wondering if a chemical or detergent was used in cleaning the tank that is still giving off something. Some things will create a residue that doesn't really rinse off.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 25-Feb-2005 22:15

cori, just off the homepage of fish profiles you are featured 3-4 times all offering quality help to people and really putting in a lot of work for doing it.. in case you dont hear it enough.. thanks heaps for your time and sharing what you know.

Im luckily enough to have 3 quite healthy tanks but your posts are very informative nonetheless for those with healthy tanks in preparation of what could be just around the corner!

I was waiting for someone to mention Melafix

How "diligent" my boyfriend's cousin (the previous owner) was about cleaning, I am still wondering. But after I had the tank at home, I used Aquarium Pharaceuticals Safe & Easy cleaner and rinsed well. There may have been a bit left on the hood, but it says it's safe for all aquatic life. Then again, along with the ammonia and nitrites....

The filter in the tank is a sump with the bio-balls. Since I am not seeing any nitrates at this point, should I change the bio-balls in case of any left-over puffer toxin? And is it safe to use carbon with Melafix?

For a spare tank, all I have is a 1 gal with no filter or anything. I only use it as a plant quarantine. My two tens and thirty are both full at this point.

Thanks, Di for helping ease my mind a bit. This is the scariest thing I have ever seen and I can't bear to be a fish killer again. My poor babies!



Last edited by harleysiber at 25-Feb-2005 22:40

Di, is there a reason why you haven't suggested dosing with 'Cycle' or some other product to speed up the cycle and help get rid of the ammonia once and for all?

- Yeah, Whetu - a brain fart

Thanks Vudu. . I'm still on medical with an asthma condition and sometimes can't quite sleep.

By all means, dose with any bacterial starter you can find. The Prime or Amquel Plus won't hurt at the same time, but be aware of a possible false positive.

Now, I'm not saying this fish aren't sick - they may very well have bacterial infections. But we know that ammnonia burns can have similar effects and these are sensitive fish. Adding antibiotics will only make water quality worse.

You may want to consider a spare ten gallon for treatment if needed because even a recently cycled tank should not be exposed to antibiotics. In a pinch, a cheap rubbermaid bin from the dollar store will help. Try to get one that is at least 9-10 gallons, with a lid. I pull from the center of the stack in case powders and spray residue got into the bins. Rinse very well, but no soaps. From there, you could get a simple, 3-4 dollar corner filter that runs off of an air pump. Make sure you have a check valve to prevent back siphon. If you can get a small 25w heater that is a plus, just stick it to a plate or other glassy object within the bin so it doesn't burn the plastic. When transferring you use as much tank water as possible without depleting 30% of the original tanks water. make sure replacement water for both is identical temp. Fake plants/caves make them feel comfy.

If you get to that point, I would use Fungus Clear Tank Buddie as a first shot, provided toxins are gone and the melafix/pimafix combon did not work. Do make sure you use pimafix in there as I feel its better.

Also, don't hesitate to do some water changes without touching biomedia. I would not play with bio balls or anything that is growing bacteria. I didn't even scrub the glass other than the front glass when I was cycling. Everything grows that sticky film which IS the bacteria. Even intakes and filter pipes coat with it. Once the filter is strong, then those things can be scrubbed.

The Safe and Easy I believe I have and I think it is intended just for outside glass, but is non-toxic if a little gets in. It is more of glass wax. Unless it specifically says you can use it for the inside of the tank, I would not do so.

If you want to sanitize a tank, simply scrub it down well with a sponge, then fill it and add as much potassium permangenate as it will take to make it purple. Let it sit an hour or so, then drain it. This stuff stains big time and is not something you should stick your arms into for any length of time, so work where you can fill and drain without an issue. Don't drain it on the grass or into the street as it can be harmful to the environment. If at any point it turns brown, then it must be redone as it is no longer active. Conditioners freshly added have done this to me.

What are your numbers today?

Last edited by Cory_Di at 26-Feb-2005 08:48

I should have mentioned what I have been using for cycling agents. I live by New Improved Cycle, and tried a new product I found called Fritz-Zyme #7. Bascially the Fritz-Zyme is supposed to be bottled bacteria, like Bio-Spira.

the Safe & Easy was used on the inside of the tank when empty, wiped down and rinsed well, as the directions implied.

My water parametes today are exactly the same as last night, after not feeding. I intend on cutting down the feedings to help the bio-filter.

The sick fish still in the tank has been hugging the top of the tank all night, and the blood streaks on his anal and caudal fins looks much better, possibly from separating himself from the others. The pectoral and pelvic fins are still severely frayed, but no sever blood streaks like the anal fin last night.

I am going out today to get some Melafix or Primafix if I can find it. I will attempt to go the rubbermaid bin route, but as we are remodeling out bathroom today, I don't have a place to put the bin.

I am happy to see that no other fish at this point are showing signs, but nobody's safe at this point.

If those aren't the result of ammonia burns, then the toxins could have weakened his immunity.

Those products are best used (Fritz/Bio-Spira), if the tank is only stocked at 1/4 max stock. Then you max out at 0.25 ammonia or so. What is the highest you've seen so far and how long has it been going?

Are you seeing any nitrates yet?

The highest I've seen is ammonia .5ppm, nitrites .25ppm, which it is still at when I tested this morning, still no nitrates. I had 6 one inch cichlids in this 55gal to start off with, now I'm down to three.

Unfortunately, the cichlid showing symptoms did not make it through the night, after adding Melafix and Primafix yesterday around noon. The three fish left show almost no signs of sickness, but I want to play it safe.

After reding up on Primafix, I am almost certain that the sick fish had a fungal infection. Yesterday, it looked like cotton bunched around his mouth, and he could not eat.

Should I contine with both Melafix and Primafix for the week to keep the rest of the fish safe, or should I just use the Primafix? I also added a half-dose of Amquel yesterday, but have seen no results. I just added another half-dose after testing this morning.

Will Primafix treat any fungus living in the tank? One of my fake plants had left over food covered by a slimy bubble which I thought to be backteria doing its work, but now almost looks like the "cotton" on the mouth of the cichlid.

Ok - that cichlid then definitely had a columnaris bacterial infection, which is also known as "cotton mouth". It can cause other issues like body fungus, frayed tails, lesions, among other things.

Columnaris can grow on rotting fish food according to Dr. Edward J. Noga, Professor of Aquatic Medicine. this doesn't mean your piece of rotting food caused the infection. All tanks have some columnaris in the water column. It takes a combination of an opening (scrape, wound, parasite bite, etc.), and stress, along with the presence of the bacteria. Reducing stress, they can often disregard what is in the water. But, with any cycling toxin in the tank, even at 0.25 or 0.5, you will have stress. Those are impressive numbers I will say. I'd keep dosing your bacterial starter and adding in just a few drops of prime or amquel plus. Both address nitrites, unlike just plain amquel.

Just by virtue of the fact that one fish had the infection means there is a higher bacterial count for this bacteria in the water column. For that reason alone, I'd continue dosing melafix and pimafix for a minimum of 7 days.

Good luck

Thanks so much Di, you've been a great help. I'm glad someone could steer me into the right direction before I caused any more harm. Please let me know if you have any more tips in this department, although you've helped me get off on the right foot. Keep up the good work!

Just don't add any new fish to the tank. Let it fully cycle, then wait some more. I'd actually wait a few water changes before adding more fish, once it cycles. New tanks tend head easily into mini-cycles with even light cleaning or changing of filter media. It takes time to get a robust colony.