FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Yeah - note the blood pinpoints signalling internal hemorrhaging. It can happen like that with dropsy alone, but more often than not, there is internal bleeding. Septicemia rooted in infection or parasites - and with otos, I highly suspect they come with internal parasites. I'm inclined with any new otos to do at least a half dose of Prazi-Pro, which is straight Praziquantel. It is pretty safe and very safe for plants. I don't know about inverts tho. Prazi makes fish expel intestinal parasites within a few hours of being in bath. It is not good for camallanus, but is for a wide variety of others.

Does it feel sharp when you hand wash it? Only that could have a bearing on the matter ...

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I just use the store bought gravel that you can get at Petco. I don't use sand or the Eco-Complete.

Quick question: what is the substrate in your aquarium? Gravel or sand? Or is it one of these complex formulations for plant growth such as Eco-Complete?



Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Thanks for every thing Cory_Di.

Not dropsy - internal hemorrhage or septicemia. Just because there are no outward signs of internal bleeding does not mean it did not occur. I buried a fish that died with a purple underside (moreso to one side) - she never did pinecone or go into dropsy, she just swelled in one spot and that one spot turned like a translucent purple. It was blood in the body cavity to one side. Yours just happened to be centered.

Dropsy is basically the kidneys and/or heart not able to pump fluid out of the body any longer. It can be induced by bacterial or parasite infections. Dropsy is not the same as septicemia. Not all internal bleeding is septicemia. So really, without a necropsy, we can only guess. But I believe, based on your description, the fish died of internal bleeding. It could have been rooted in any number of things, but with similar symptoms in more than one fish, I would surmise either parasite, bacteria or both.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 08-Feb-2005 23:49

But the otto in the picture is very VERY round. My otto's had only their underside purple and it was only buldging in that one spot. I really don't think that the otto's died from dropsy because they were not as round and did not have "seams" on their skin.(the black line on the otto is the "seam".) If you still think it is dropsy then let me know. If you think it is somthing else please share it because I'm not getting anymore otto's or pleco's until I figure this out. Thanks again.

Last edited by Golden Ryukin at 08-Feb-2005 23:35

If you had cut the oto open at the belly, I'm pretty sure you would have seen bloody inners. Not every case of internal bleeding looks the same.

oooh babel, that's a terrible photo But thanks for sharing the pic and the info. When i get more ottos to replace my lost tribe, I'll know what to look for.

Thanks for update, but then how come my otto's didn't have the dark line going down the belly? I'm still very confused as to why ALL my otto's died and had purple round bellies? Well thank you all for your time trying to help me with my problem. See you later.

They can still bleed internally without showing the signs Babel shows in her pic. The purple had to be pooled blood. At least, that's most likely what it was, in my mind.

THe otto in the picture didn't look like my otto's when they died. All they had were a round an purple stomach, no blood exposed at the base of the fins like the picture showed. If I get anymore otto's I will look for the Prazi-pro that Cory_DI uses. Thanks for the pic Babelfish. The scales also didn't "pinecone" as Whetutu said. Also the otto's were NOT that big when I found them. I looked in the tank to see my otto's and they never looked like that one. Was that otto alive Babelfish? I'll still look for your posts and thanks for the help.

Last edited by Golden Ryukin at 08-Feb-2005 17:44

I have had many otto's since I got my firt tank a little under a year ago. They all have a purple belly when I fish them out of the tank. Can anyone tell me what the purple belly means?

whetutu FYI (:%))...something that came up when treating my ottos is that with ottos you often dont really see the pineconeing effect with them till the latter stages of dropsy....IME anyway.


^_^[hr width='40%']"Somewhere beyond happiness and sadness
I need to calculate,what creates my own madness...
and I am waiting for disaster"
[/font]

FYI: the most common symptoms of dropsy are the fish being swollen up and the scales sticking out 'like a pinecone'

Ok, I think I know what it was.

When fish bleed internally, as with septicemia, they don't always get the red streaks on the outside of the body. I had a fish die of internal hemorrhage that way.

We will never know if it was rooted in bacterial infection, parasites, or what not. The fish were bleeding internally and that is all we will even know. Like I said above, mine bled from the vent and when I looked at the bodies, some had blood at the base of the fins too - common for septicemia.

Just know that some batches of otos just don't make it. The best thing to do is to try again, but first read what Babel provided in the post-link. There is excellent advice in that article about otos.

Best of wishes.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 07-Feb-2005 22:27

The otto's had just a big round purple spot in the middle of their bellies. That was all that was on the otto's. I had them each for about 2-3 days. Thanks for all the help

I meant to ask about that purple belly....

Was any of it in the form of streaks? If so, hemorrhagic septicemia will do that. Essentially the fish dies of internal bleeding. It can be brought on by a number of things and is often rooted in bacterial infection. That infection can be rooted in parasites, for which I believe the wild caught otos may come with.

A first batch of otos I got all died one by one within 2 days and all were bleeding from the vent - another sign. pH, temp all were the same as lfs. I got a second batch 3 weeks later, and they are still with me, 2 years later.

I do know that they do best in lower nitrate tanks. 20-30ppm is good, but 5-15 is even better

Last edited by Cory_Di at 06-Feb-2005 22:55

Ammonia 0.0
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate 20-30 ppm
PH 7.5

I do not use PH adjusters. I check my levels at least once a week. I feed my fish once a day and give enough food to average one flake per fish. I think When the Otto died and I found the remains he had been under my rock for a few days because I didn't know where he was. I think that the bacteria from the dissolved otto caused my tank to turn green because before I put the 2 otto's in my tank there hadn't been any green water since my goldfish. I still have no explanation as to why my ottos had purple bellies after they died. Thanks for the help Cory_DI. I'm getting so frustrated that I'm starting to look like this guy.]:| This is just crazy, I can't believe that the purple belly hasn't happend to anyone else.

Last edited by Golden Ryukin at 06-Feb-2005 22:03

You say levels were neutral. This sounds like pH?

What were ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? And, was your pH 7.0?

Using numbers is better than talking in descriptive terms, which are meaningless.

Do you use any type of pH adjuster?

Also, if your tank had lots of algae, I would suspect high nitrates. High nitrates lead to bad health. It dilates their blood vessels and weakens immunity. Tanks with high nitrates also probably have high waste and decaying organics - all of which contribute to bacteria that can cause infection.

New otos are different from otos dying in established tanks when they have been residents. They can live quite long, so it's always good to do an assessment on water quality when one or more die.