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No. They just spawned yesterday morning (all of a sudden) and afterwards they simply quit and went very lethargic. They've been like that ever since. They don't necessarily look worse, but they are not better either. I re-started the Medi-Koi and, of course, I had started them on Prazi yesterday afternoon.

Somebody tells me to add salt again. I did that when this all first started. How much should I add?? How many teaspoons and in what amount of time so not to stress them even more.....

I'm getting very very worried....

Thanks for all your help!!

Patty***

Got it!!

DOC WELLSFISH'S is what I got. Boy, I'm glad I asked... I was going to use the baggies! LOL

Thanks a million!! I'll manage to come up with a container like that one, or add it at 12 hour intervals.

Again, thanks!

Patty

Oh yes.... I placed the container without a lid in side a large net and just let it dissolve. The kids can't get to it at all.

Patty

Doing much better today, praise God!!

Thanks everyone!!

Patty

Glad they're doing better. As long as they are tolerating it, keep the salt at that level. When you do your water change, figure rougly how many gallons you took out and you'll know how many Tbsp to put back in at 1 Tbsp/gal.

[font color="#000080"]THANK YOU SOOOO VERY MUCH for sticking with me throughout this ordeal. GROUP HUG! LOL I cannot tell you how comforting it was for me to find emails here, even if you did not have much to offer, it made me feel less alone and confused (helpless?). When you care about your goldfish as much as we do, ordinary people simply don't understand ("...they're ONLY fish!!"]:|]:|

Every goldie is doing much better They eat plenty and look soooo good. I guess I'll wait until next week to re-plant the tank, but this time I will have an experienced friend along.

Again, thank you ALL so much for all your help and support. After watching the daily news, people like yourselves give me back my confidence in humans as a caring race.

Patty [/font]

No problem Patty - so the salt helped?

Now you know of one treatment method. I find the salt picks them up when something isn't right. Its a good first step versus antibiotics and other chemicals.

I would make a suggestion for you before you put the plants back into the tank. Sterilize. There are many methods. Bleaching is harsh and some won't tolerate it.

However, a much milder way to disinfect them is two steps:

1) Ordinary kitchen alum. If it can kill snails and snail eggs, it likely is harmful to parasites. Just dissolve 1 Tbsp per gallon in a bucket of room temp, dechlorinated water and let it soak overnight. It won't harm them. Rinse several times very well and gently with water from the tap that is room temp. I just put my dechlorinator in as I'm filling the bucket.

2) Potassium Permangenate. This is easily available in diluted form in Jungle's Clear Water. You can buy it at most pet stores. Do not put it in the tank. Rather, fill a bucket of water and add dechlorinator. Let is sit overnight. The next morning, add as much Jungle Clear Water as it takes to make the water a dark purple. Add plants and soak for only 15 minutes. Then rinse, rinse, rinse using the conditioner each time you fill the bucket. Potassium Permangenate is a good antibacterial and plants are tolerant of this short bath. It is also effective against some parasites.

The reason I have you fill a bucket the night before with dechlorinator is that sometimes the conditioner, if used right before the potassium permangenate, neutralizes it, turning it brown. Once potassium permangenate is brown it is not useful - dump it and start over.

Hope this helps.

Diane

Patty, I hope you did not open the container in such a way that the goldfish can get at the rocks. If you really want to dissolve it use the method I suggested in a recent previous post in this thread, using hot water and a drop of conditioner. DO NOT allow rocks that are undissolved to potentially touch your fish or put it in a position for them to attempt eating it. It will burn them.

I stated that the glad container method would take longer - use one method or the other. If you want it to dissolve in 12 hours and not 3 days, then predissolve. Hot water works wonders. Just let it cool to room temp.

I added like 10 tablespoons of salt 10 days ago. Since then, I did my regular weekly water change, PLUS the day the plants arrived I did a 40% water change.

You really need to have some idea how much salt is left in the tank? When did you last salt it and how much went in? How many water changes have you done with how much water removed?

I like the method I described of putting it into a Glad container and letting it slow dissolve on its own.

I like that idea (the bag with holes). So, I poke holes in a gladlock baggy, add the salt in there, zip it and let it sink to the bottom??? sounds easy....

Patty, a thought occurred to me that maybe your goldfish are just plain exhausted from mating. Also, goldfish males will eat the eggs as they are coming out - I have watched this. It later results in.....white poop.

Are these fish really going at it hard during the morning hours? I've watched mine engage at first crack of dawn for up to 4-5 hours. Maybe they are on the gravel out of pure exhaustion.

You've got Prazi in the water so if the white is parasites that should cover it. You've provided Medi-Koi so if the white is due to a bacterial infection, you've got that covered. Not sure what else there is to try.

Watch so that you don't oversalt.

[font color="#000080"] SOMEBODY HELP ME!!!!!!!

They are still on the bottom. I did notice some of them have white thin poop. That indicates bacterial infection, right?? I added the Prazi last night, so when can I add any antibiotics, if any?? What can I add??? Can I add salt even after the Prazi?? (I added salt when this all begun but did not notice much change). How much salt can I add, if any?? or should I wait for the Prazi to clear??

I'm getting desperate.... Checked the water parameters and they still look normal. What else can I do??

Patty [/font]

[font color="#000080"] No, I did not sterilize the plants. I purchased them from what I thought was a very reputable place, though! I would be very surprised if they had anything bad in them... just because I believe they are very experienced (Aquatic Plant Depot: http://www.aquaticplantdepot.com/index.html).

The kids look a lot better today. They are much more active than last night and they are gravel picking, although they will still lay still at times, but not for long. They do not sit on the bottom, just a couple of inches off of the bottom. How weird is that?? They look much better though. I wonder how long it takes for Prazi to show signs of improvement (i.e., is this really the Prazi working or is it just my wishful thinkging? LOL).

Thanks for your support.

Patty***[/font]

Last edited by PattyPedd at 27-Jan-2005 10:16

Patty, did you sterilize the plants before putting them in the tank?

Where did you get the plants? Were there any fish at all in the tank the plants came from?

Plants can definitely introduce disease and parasites. I typically run them through an alum soak of about 1Tbsp kitchen alum to a gallon of water and I soak overnight. This eliminates snails, snail eggs and bugs. It probably is effective for some parasites. I then soak in a solution of potassium permangenate which can be found in Jungle's Clear Water. I just put enough in a bucket of water to color the water dark purple. I leave the plants in from 10-15 minutes, then rinse, rinse, rinse. This kills bacteria, viruses and I believe some parasites.

Prazi should kill off flukes.

[font color="#000080"] Morning. Today they seem better. At least they are swimming about, but once in a while they go down again. I noticed, though, that DeeDee doesn't really sit on the bottom of the tank.... she stays about a couple of inches off of the bottom....??? Dexter looks better than yesterday, but he definitely needs to be watched over: he will swim into the plants in the tank and rest there for a little bit, then just takes off again. How odd...! Maybe they are experimenting with having plants in there? For the longest time I've had that large tank bare of any plants, mainly because they would uproot everything. So this is new to them.

Will keep ya'll updated, if anybody is interested. (Maybe I'm all alone on this one?)

Patty***[/font]

PattyPedd attached this image:


Last edited by PattyPedd at 27-Jan-2005 07:59

[font color="#000080"]Oh, I forgot to add this pic. It actually shows some of the eggs stuck to the glass... The arrow is pointing at the tubercules (some people were curious about what they look like).

Enjoy!

Patty***[/font]

PattyPedd attached this image:


Last edited by PattyPedd at 26-Jan-2005 22:23

[font color="#000080"] Yes, I already did...!!! I tried the salt FIRST AND FOREMOST, remember?? I just got very worried today because of the sudden change. :%)

I read on PondRx.com that the behavior they exhibited was, more than likely, Flukes. Even if it is not, Prazi is broad spectrum. I did read about Costia, but from what I read I don't know where they would have gotten it... I guess Flukes sounded more like it to me. I just don't know anymore. I am stunned. They were doing great, messing around, spawning one minute and all sick-looking the next... ???

I'll do another water reading tomorrow first thing in the morning, just in case. What else can I do??

Maybe the plants I introduced just stressed them too much...??

Patty***[/font]

Did you read what I printed from Doc Johnson about goldfish sitting on the bottom? If it is costia, the Prazi won't help.

Personally, I'd do the salt treatment mentioned.

[font color="#000080"]Seriously folks..... I'm getting nervous: they look sick! They are sitting on the bottom of the tank. They looked fine this morning, with the spawning and all.... I have no idea what happened. All of a sudden, it was as if they are just limp. They will swim if bothered and they ate too, but they go right back down. Now there are three fish doing this.

I kept an eye and started them on the Prazi (also Medi-Koi again), just in case.

Patty***[/font]