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Another update on Platinum…

The Maracyne II treatment has ended; I have, on the other hand, continued dosing Melafix. I have done a 25% water change, and the water parameters (both before and after the water change) are all fine. I have been running the filter without carbon, as I want to make sure the Melafix is not removed. Platinum is doing much, much better. His “pimples” are gone, and you can only see traces what was once there. He is still missing a “whisker,” though. Do you know if their whiskers grow back?

Anyway, I want to tank all of you for your help. If it were not your help, my fish would all be dead. THANK YOU!!!

Aside from regular maintenance (i.e. monthly 25% water changes, etc), what other steps should I take as to prevent illness?

-Angel

One final update on Platinum: Since my last post, Platinum has recuperated rather nicely. His “whisker” has new growth; the “whisker” has grown about 2.5 inches. This answers our question: “Whiskers” DO grow back. The first sign of growth is the formation of something analogous to a growth nodule. The nodule then turns pale while, and then the growth begins. At first, you may not notice any changes because the new growth is very thin (an almost translucent hair-like structure), then it thickens and extend from the nodule. I just wanted to share this with you all since you all shared your ideas with me. Thanks for all your help and good wishes. I hope I can be of service in the future. THANK YOU ALL!!

-Angel Aguirre

If you do find that your nitrates are high, then perform small (15-20%) water changes, either daily or every other day, until they get to the desired target, preferrably 5ppm. Then you can measure how long it takes to get to 15 for planted or 20 for non-planted. I would measure a few more times before setting my permanent water change interval. Of course, adding fish or plants can change this.

Your long-winded reply did help indeed. Thanks for all the valuable info, and the reference link – I will print it and read it tonight! Oh, and yes, I will begin weekly water changes immediately.

-Angel

Aside from regular maintenance (i.e. monthly 25% water changes, etc), what other steps should I take as to prevent illness?

I think one thing you should consider is to step it up to a weekly maintenance for several reasons.

1) Rotting, uneaten food is one of the leading culprits of columnaris bacteria available in the water column (waiting for an injury to infect). If each Saturday, for example, you gravel vac one quarter of your tank, removing 15% of your water and replacing with same temp, you will capture more debris. While it is easy on my 20 long, I make it a point to move rocks, wood, and other decco out of the way to pull out rotting food that has gotten wedged into the tight spaces. More reading (towards the bottom where it links columnaris to uneaten food): Columnaris Article

Furthermore, anaerobic bacteria (that which grows in the absence of o2), can multiply quite well in compacted gravel and in other places were well oxygenated water cannot flow. Gravel vac'ing breaks it up, but sucks out the bad at the same time. Tanks that aren't tended to but every few months have a further risk of developing hydrogen sulfide gas (smells of rotten eggs).

2) Nitrates. If your tank is fully stocked or slightly overstocked, water changes should really be done weekly anyway to bring nitrates down. My 20 long is just slightly overstocked, has live plants and I can go from 5ppm nitrates to 15 in one week, feeding once daily. If I were to do changes monthly, the nitrates would probably be up around 60-80 and over time the baseline would rise. Taking a nitrate count of 80 and doing a 25% water change would probably only bring it down to about 60 ppm. Then in another month that value would be higher.

Why are nitrates important to watch? We once thought they were harmless. This misguided thought was on the basis that we didn't see immediate effects like we do with ammonia or nitrite. However, more recent research has linked high nitrates to declining fish health and lower resistance. One physical thing we know occurs, is that blood vessels dilate. Fish with fancy fins, like goldfish for example, will show what looks like varicose veins in the fins when in high nitrate waters. I seen this with my own goldies that came from a tank that had to be over 200ppm nitrates, while the ammonia and nitrites were zero. Blood vessels in the tail were very "angry" looking almost to the point that it looked like they had bacterial septicemia. However, within 2-3 weeks of being in a low nitrate tank (5-20ppm), this vanished. I neglected to do some water changes on my goldie tank and let it slip to every two weeks and slowly the nitrates rose to about 80ppm, with ammonia and nitrite at 0. The red streaks were back. Once again, they disappeared after I did a series of daily water changes to get back down to 5ppm and maintained the 5-20 level from that point on.

High nitrates are also thought to contribute to swim-bladder disorder (possibly due to blood vessel dilation) and cory barbel erosion. These are only theories, however some labs have done testing by taking affected fish from high nitrate tanks and placing them in low nitrate tanks with positive effects, like lessening of swim bladder problems and increased barbel growth, within a few weeks. Almost all cories that I have bought had little or no barbels. Within a 2-3 month period, I saw unbelievable length grow on these guys in my low nitrate tanks. Once again, the source I once bought fish from only did maintenance monthly and fish store tanks are overstocked (meaning high nitrates).

Consider that in nature, lakes don't have high nitrate counts. Rain and stream water, as well as the plants and algae take it up and keep it low.

These are just some of the things that drive me to do weekly water changes and gravel vacs, not to mention that planted tanks need nitrates in the 5-15 ppm range. Any higher and plants can be damaged and algae can grow in abundance.

I highly recommend test kits if you don't have them to know where your levels are at. You may find that your nitrates rise slowly enough to do water changes every two weeks, if you have a smaller bio-load. I think the lower nitrates can only contribute to the healing of your fish, if they are presently high. If you don't have test kits, you can take a bag of water to the fish store and have them check it.

Hope my long winded reply helps




Last edited by Cory_Di at 13-Nov-2004 10:54

Great to hear it.

I love hearing recovery stories.

I'll bet it grows back with his improved health. We know that cory's can grow their barbels back when they erode (provided the root cause of the erosion is found). And, fins grow back, if they haven't rotted down to the base. I purchased a goldie with a damaged fin - looks like he got it caught in a filter intake as it was square in shape. It grew back alright and I thought it would be uneven, but it wasn't.

In some cases, like bettas, white indicates growth, provided it is not fuzzy or filmy.

Well, 2/3 fell because of a "pimple" on his whisker (I really need to get me a book that teaches me terminology - LOL), so only one-third remains.

-Angel

Wonderful

I believe that if the "whisker" has not eroded all the way to the base, it will grow back with time. How far has it gone down or what is left of it?

Maybe Gary knows.

Hello!

My 29 gal has been plagues by Ich for the past week or so. I’ve been treating the tank with Rid Ich+ since Saturday, October 23rd. The Ich appears to be under control – don’t worry I plan to continue the treatment for at least 6 more days – but suddenly other “things” are coming up….

1.- Pointy, my Dwarf Gouramie, passed away yesterday . When I removed his body, I noticed that he had some sort of lesion on one of his sides. Would you all please help me identify the cause of death, and recommend a good treatment for this illness (just to be prepared if I encounter it again).

2.- My beautiful Platinum Gouramie, by the name of Platty, has developed lesions that I can only describe as pimples. The poor thing even has one on one of his “wiskers” (sorry, I don’t know the proper terminology). Please help me determine what plagues him so that I can find a treatment for him. Please help us!

Please visit this site where you will find pictures that I’ve taken of the late Pointy, and of Platty. I hope these can help you all determine what happened.

http://utminers.utep.edu/alaguirre/Fish/my_sick_fish_page.htm

-Angel

I would say do the water change and hold off on maracyn treatment for a few days. WATCH him for any signs that he might be getting worse again and start another round if this is the case. You can continue to dose melafix, I would until the ulcers have compoletely disapeared to reduce chances of a secondary infection. Those little healing "pimples" would make a great open door to any nasties that might be lurking in there. The antiseptic action of the melafix should help speed up healing and can be dosed until the wounds are gone. I would probably ontinue to dose it for about a week after I can't see any ulcers, really it's up to you.

If his condition seems to worsen at all after you stop treatment with the maracyn, do another round. It's up to you whether it needs to be done, you just have to base that decision on how the fish are doing. HTH

Update on Platinum:

He is doing much better. The pimple-like ulcers have receded – they are still noticeable, but they are not as swollen as before. He, unfortunately, did loose one of his “whiskers” (the Thrico on his gaster) L. I have completed a 7-day treatment with Maracyne II and Melafix. I know that a 25% water change is in order, but I wonder whether I should continue with the treatment (as the lesions are still present) or do a partial water change and then begin treatment once more. What are your comments about this?

You all have been great help and support. Platinum and I thank you for all your advise!

-Angel

Wow, I wish I knew this earlier... I lost ALL of my gouramies when I was first beginning to ulcers... Best of luck to you, though, it seems the other guys have taken care of you suggestions wise

Ulcers seem common to gouarmis and we see many people come into the hospital forum, especially with dwarfs infected with this.

I strongly recommend keeping the new Jungle Anti-BActerial medicated feed (only available at Pet Smart at this time). Medicated feed is always more effective than waterborne meds and it will not affect the bio-filter that keeps your ammonia and nitrite under control.

Let us know how he does and keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrite throughout treatment and up to 3 days after treatment is complete .

I could not find any tetracycline, at least not locally. I went to a LPS and requested to speak to the fish tech. I explained why I needed tetracycline and he said “for some reason corporate does not want us selling the stuff anymore” - He recommended Maracyne II (which is derived from tetracycline). Anyway, I purchased Maracyne II and Melafix; I have been treating my fish as directed in the instructions. Thank you for the info and your good wishes! My fish seem to be more active, and the “pimples” on my Gouramie are a bit less swollen. Thank you for saving my fish! Are there any precautionary actions that I should take in the future in order to prevent ulcers?

-Angel

What Gary recommended should help your other gourami with the ulcer. Ulcers are a common affliction of gourami's unfortunately. We see much of that here.

Watch your parameters, namely, ammonia and nitrite while using tetracycline and kill the lights, keeping it dim or the tetracycline will not be effective.

At the same time, please consider using this, which is new by Jungle. Jungle says it can be fed at the same time as water antibiotics and claims it is effective for such ulcers. In fact, you may want to try this first, along with melafix in the water, rather than the tetracycline which can cause ammonia and nitrite spikes. Such ulcers often lead to blood infections and internal infections. The pellets can be crushed so all of your fish can eat them, if they are too small for the sized pellets. Jungle states this right on the package. If he is still eating, this is the way I would go.

http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441806679&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023693&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302030134&bmUID=1099174249668

Last edited by Cory_Di at 30-Oct-2004 21:37

Is this what is wrong with my Platinum gouramie (ie.e skin ulcers)?

Stop the ich treatment...

Do a 25% water change of the same exact temp and pH and start dosing Tetracycline, an antibiotic, and Melafix, an anticeptic.

Dose according to product directions and remove any carbon from the filter.

Your trop died from an advanced skin ulcer mostly caused by poor water quality or an adverse reaction from the ich med or both.

--garyroland.



Last edited by garyroland at 29-Oct-2004 13:08