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I’ve lost 4 neon praecox and 3 bosemani (all mature fish), over the last week. One each day! They all appeared healthy (except following note) and didn’t exhibit any lethargy or anything. The corpses all showed a patch of pale scales at different points on the torso. I noticed that the last bosemani to die had what looked like a small gash in his scales right behind his head. I can think of no explanation as to how he could have been physically damaged. When I found his corpse this morning the scales around the “gash” area were pale.

Other inhabitants of the tank include lots of cories, cherry red shrimp, 5 hatchets, 3 zebra plecos and a gold nugget pleco, some gold white clouds, a couple of mollies and a sword tail.

The tank is heavily planted, but I’ve been struggling with poor plant growth problems for months. I’ve been dosing traces regularly and some macros once or twice a week.


It’s so weird that only the rainbows are dying and one a day for a week and nothing else seems to be having problems. It’s also a sudden death thing, usually during the day while I’m away at work. I only have 4 boesmani left.

Thoughts?


Tank info:

125 gal
384 watts compact fluorescents
CO2 injection with pH controller
pH set point 6.8
KH 5-6
GH 5-6
Fully cycled
Nitrate 10-20 depending on day of week
Phosphates 2-5 (stopped dosing P as plants aren’t taking it up sufficiently)
Weekly to bi-weekly water changes, 40 or 20%

I know you say your tank is fully cycled but go ahead and test the water for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate...it is possible that something could be out of whack there...

Have you changed the food recently? Added any new decorations? Changed the gravel? What kind of substrate do you have in the tank? Do you have the ability to take a picture of the fish? I would only do the water change at 20% once a week...What kind of dechlorinator are you using? Also what kind of filtration do you have going on in the tank?

Hopefully we can figure this out...heidi

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

I would say with nitrates staying between 10-20ppm you definitely aren't changing too much. The exception would be if you aren't matching water parameters or the fish are dying soon after water changes. Definitely test for ammonia and nitrite and I'll give you more questions to answer. How long have you had this tank setup and how long have the current inhabitants been together?

The tank has been set-up over 2 yrs. No significant recent changes other than my on-going battle with plant health.

Filtration is with an Eheim 2028. I'll check ammonia and nitrate, but that’s very doubtful as the plants would suck it up with glee.

I use RO/DI water in a 40 gal reservoir and reconstitute it with SeaChem Equilibrium (GH) and Alkaline Buffer (KH) to match tank parameters.

Another boesamani died yesterday. I was keeping a close watch on it because I saw a small discoloration at the base of one of the pectoral fins. She was otherwise fin and showed no symptoms of lethargy or anything. Found her dead when I did the nighttime feeding.

It’s so strange that whatever this is affecting one fish a day for 8 days now and only the rainbows thus far.

What kind of disease could act this way? Parasitic?

John

I did have fish dying of no symptoms but it was all at once then a few stragglers. I was guessing a bacterial infection from some new fish. With that much light and co2 you should be able to grow anything which would use up your nitrates. It seems odd to have that much nitrate with water changes and that kind of setup. Plants are not a gurantee against ammonia or nitrite. Yours aren't even using your nitrates up in a good fashion. What substrate do you have and how much do you clean it?

I have a flourite/gravel mix, probably about 1:2 to 1:1. I vac the gravel that I can get to around the plants to a depth of about an inch whenever I do water changes (3-4 times a month).

I'm getting some plant growth, just not much considering the CO2 and light. More distressing than the slow growth is the plants are unhealthy (leaves get holes, some turn transparent).

I just replaced my CF bulbs Friday. The old ones were about 14 mn old.

Well the plant problem I can help you solve but the fish deaths are a bit harder Check [link=http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm]http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm" style="COLOR: #00C0C0[/link] to see what symptoms match your plants deficiency and dose accordingly.
For the fish I don't know any other potential water or tank problems. My guesses are down to a bacterial infection but I don't know anywhere it could have come from or there is actually a fish in your tank attacking rainbows. I have no experience with mollies but haven't heard of them being agressive so I'd go with the plecos. Both those species can be agressive and my goldnugget is on the very aggressive end for the species. He will attack anything that stays in his territory too long. I've also heard several cases of even less agressive plecos slamming cories across the tank during feeding time. But I have never heard of or had plecos going after more top swimming fish. You could try shining a blue or red light on the tank at night and see what's going on.

I doubt the plecos had anything to do with it. Baryancistrids are territorial, true, but will not go out of their way to attack other fish (even then, IME, this aggression is usually diverted towards other smaller loricariids; mine got along fine with larger panaque and parancistrus). Furthermore, hypancistrus are peaceful, bordering on timid, and would not even have the facilities to "suck" to death a large, 6 inch rainbow. The aggression that you hear so much about is dispersed amongst themselves. I've never had any of my hypancistrus attack nonconspecifics.

Also, why are you (topic starter) dosing phosphates? In ideal condtions, PO4 stays at around 0.5~1 ppm. The higher they go, the more problems you'll start to have with plant health.


P.S.: Are you willing to part with your L-46? I am always in search of more.


Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 25-Apr-2005 02:10

I think Sham might be on the right track. I had a problem with a school of Rummies about 6 months back almost identical to what you describe. Otherwise healthy full colored (and rummies are great indicator fish) and hearthy appetites, then died off at a rate of 1 day until none left. No signs of illness, all other fish fine. Never found the cause but the theory given to me at the time was a possible bacterial problem to which the Rummies lacked a immunity that the others had. This may be the case with your Boesmanni's.

Not much help I know.

As for the plants. Well the holes and transparent leaves sounds like a Potassium shortage. Potassium is the nutrient most likely to be in short supply in an aquarium and not too many ferts have Potassium as an ingredient (Tropica Master Grow is the only one that I know for sure does). Good news is ideally the level should be about 20ppm and as never been indicated as an algae causer so it's pretty safe to dose. Best method is Potassium Chloride. This is easily available in supermarkets as Mortons Nu Salt or Lo Salt - it's pure KCL. Half a teaspoon per week should do nicely. IME plants react very well to additional Potassium and this may kick your plants into taking up more of that Nitrate.

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