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If hes just really fat, put a mirror so he can "take a few rounds" with his twin! Hes a very gorgeous Betta, and it was a miracle for you to notice him.

Hi everyone, well no good news, the betta got sicker and sicker and as much as I tried to cure him, nothing worked for him, he just got bigger and bigger, till his hole body pineconed, I knew right away he developed dropsy, so I had to euthanaise *spelling* him. At least he had a better end than been thrown into the trash. It's still sad, he always had a great attitude till the end.

Thank you all for your concern and your advise.

Ah, if your dad is a vet here's what he may need to know. It is from Fancy Goldfish, co-authored by Dr. Erik Johnson, DVM and the renouned koi vet/surgeon (copyright 2001). While the book focuses on goldfish, prazi has been deemed very safe, in bath, for all fish and fully developed fry, and plants.

Description: Droncit is a pill form of praziquantel available from your local veterinarian, who uses it to clear tapeworm from dogs.

Uses: In fish medicine, we use Droncit to clear flukes and worms from our fish.

Dosage and Dosing: Use Droncit as a water treatment every third or fourth day without a water change to clear flukes from Goldfish. It is safe and effetive. It does not harm fish, filter, or algae. If the fish harbor any tapeworms, they will be expelled within two to four hours. One treatment will clear all intestinal worms.

Use 3.5 tablets of the 34-milligram Droncit tablets for dogs per 10 gallons of water (a 3-ppm dose). This will be very expensive treatment in larger aquaria. As mentioned, no water change is needed. Because of the life cycle of the trematode fluke, the second treatment on day three or four is very important to kill any larval flukes that may not have been affected by the first treatment.

Precautions: None

The flukes he speaks of are gill and skin flukes and these would cause flashing and scratching. But you see he speaks of intestinal worms.

Here's the book I took that from:

[link=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0834804484/qid=1102468134/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-4914159-6111963?v=glance&s=books&n=507846]http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0834804484/qid=1102468134/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-4914159-6111963?v=glance&s=books&n=507846" style="COLOR: #C000C0[/link]

And here's more (note at the bottom of Dr. Erik Johnson's message he notes that it is even safe for fry). In the US, Prazi is now available in a product called Prazi-Pro and in that fish med I recommended. It is advertised as all-fish safe.

[link=http://www.fishdoc.net/articles/details.php?articleId=25]http://www.fishdoc.net/articles/details.php?articleId=25" style="COLOR: #C000C0[/link]

yes i tried to do a phone description, since he is out of the city in his ranch, but he said he had to see the fish, and he does not have a computer there, so that's why i came here to ask, he has even given shots to my fish with these almost un noticeable needles before to cure them and it has worked wonderfully, but since this july he moved to live there permanently.

Thanks for the advice, 24 hours had passed with him in the epsom salts, and nothing has changed, he still has his huge belly, but seems happy even though he hasn't eaten, i'll try to get the med tomorrow i had no luck with it today.

You can also ask your dad for a cattle dewormer that contains Levamisole Hydrochloride. It might be sold under different brand names and different concentration. It's been used by aquarists as a dewormer for a long time with great results. You have to calculate the dose so you'll end up with 1ppm of LH in your tank. In other words, if what you get is 7.5%, then you have to use 1ml for every 7.5 litres. You just add it to the tank (remove the carbon first, of course) and after 24 hours do a 70%-100% water change. Most fish will be uninterested in food for those 24 hours, so feed very sparingly and see who, if anybody, is interested in food. After about half an hour from adding the treatment you will see the worms coming out (if he has any, but he probably does -- most fish do, although most don't show the signs of having them). It is recommended to treat the whole tank and not just one fish as the other fish might have gotten the worms from the betta, if that is the case. Both of my tanks have bettas in them and they didn't show any signs of distress while using the medication, and were still interested in eating. However, I remember you had guppy females with the betta. My guppies didn't really like it and became a bit irritable and didn't want any food until after the water change.

By the way, have you tried asking your father what he thinks about the fish, as he is a vet?

Hi, yes i'm in Mexico city not even close to the border, and yes they are white or pale, i didn't found the medicine you suggest but i have clout, which i think is also takes care of parasites, what do you think?

i just put him on the magnesium salts bath.

My Dad is a vet, i'll ask him if he can get me the medicine for dogs and cats, that will be easier.



Last edited by Falstaf at 06-Dec-2004 22:06

Are the feces really pale, in addition to being stringy? If so, that bulge may be an abundance of worms making him bloat. Sometimes internal parasites can cause them to have a sunken belly. But it can also cause a bloat too.

Are you truly in Mexico as your flag suggests? If not, or if you are close to a US border, I highly recommend the new Jungle Anti-Parasite medicated food (currently only available at PetSmart). It has praziquantel in it which is the same dewormer used in the dog/cat dewormer Droncit. They discovered that it is one of the most effective drugs for fish too, even in bath. I don't know if you can purchase products from the US, but here are two things you can consider:

http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441806678&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023693&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302030134&bmUID=1102376737586

or, http://www.rockymountaindiscus.com/prazipro.htm

The bath is just as effective as eating the stuff. Within a few hours they expel what worms they have. It's also safe for all fish, including fully developed fry, scaleless fish, plants.



Last edited by Cory_Di at 06-Dec-2004 17:49

You might have to withhold food for a couple of days before he will start to accept the deshelled pea. If you can get him to eat the pea, have him eat it for 2 weeks (and NO other food) or until his belly goes away (if it does sooner).
If he wont take the pea's, try feeding him something like dried seaweed, and nothing else for a while.

Hi!

First of all thanks everyone for the replays.

You may be happy to know that I did called human services and the store is now closed, I hope they took all the animals with them, if not I'll be guilty of starvation death of many of them. I had to send them the photo of the poor betta and all the details.

And an update, at first I did put him on a small planted tank along with some female guppies I keep there, but since I had to treat him I moved him into a 1G bowl, I added salt to it, and methaline blue (in case it was bacterial) and a dose of bettafix. He's eating Azoo's betta pellets (he wouldn't touch the pea) and he eats like a little pig he's active as any of my other male bettas and acting normal. 3 days have gone by and his belly is still the same.

I've seen him poo, like a really small and thin thread, thinner than my other bettas, maybe he IS constipated, the bowl is resting on the top one of my tanks canopy which generates enough heat to warm up his bowl.

I'll try to find the Epsom salts tomorrow, I'm not sure what the name in Spanish is, but I'm sure I'll figure out something. and keep you all updated.

Last edited by Falstaf at 06-Dec-2004 02:57

First of all, that was a horrible way to treat a sick or dying fish by that fish store. They should educate their people in euthanasia. I would have called the Humane Society, even if they don't want to get involved and ask them if they consider it humane disposal to put an air breathing creature in a sealed bag in the trash. ]:| Not to mention that even sick, they can survive for some time and no doubt, being tossed with the trash, he would have been chilled and ooooohhh - makes me angry ]:|

Secondly, I commend you for taking matters into your own hand, even if it were to let him expire somewhere quietly on his own or to euthanize humanely.

Dropsy does not necessarily result in pineconing. I have several fish disease books and one picture features a betta that looks similar. It appears to be dropsy to me, and I hope I'm wrong. Otherwise, tumor, or some other type of internal malfunction/blockage (digestive/reproductive, etc.) If he is constipated, you can try a bath in magesium sulfate (epsom salts). It is rumored to help with dropsy by pulling out water the fish is holding. Dropsy is more of an end stage of something, when the kidneys are no longer filtering out water properly, and/or the heart is not pumping efficiently. It can be brought on by bacterial or parasite infections, among other things. Dropsy is very rarely cured, even if it is rooted in infection and antibiotic delivered.

I hope you have not put this fish into another fish tank, straight from the fish store, as it appears in the one picture. This would be dangerous practice in light of a condition which is unknown.

If the fish is still with you, consider this:

Magnesium sulfate bath (in a 1-2 gallon container that can be kept in a warm room) water at least 75F would be good and you can use an incandenscent lamp to get it to that temp from a lower room temp during the day and wrap the container at night in a towel to preserve the heat. See below for details of dosing.

If this fish is constipated to that extent, the magnesium sulfate may help things along. I have done this with my first betta who slowed down when he aged . Here is the process from the book, "Fishlopaedia" by Mary Baily and Peter Burgess (Copyright 2000):

Epsom salts are sometimes an effective treatment against constipation in fish. Treatment is via long term bath (1-3 days), normally in a hospital tank, using a dosage of 1 level teaspoon per 4 gallons (2.5 grams per 18 litres), dissolved in a small volume of aquarium water and added to the aquarium. Raising the temperature slightly (within the tolerance limit of the fish) may assist by increasing metabolic rate. If the treatment is effective, the fish should start to produce faeces within 1-3 days.

Now, when I did this, I slowly added the magnesium solution to my 2 gallon betta tank over the course of the day, monitoring him to make sure he didn't have any reactions.

Good luck I think I'll start looking in the trash containers at local fish stores. I'll make myself unwelcome after asking to see the manager.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 04-Dec-2004 23:05

Last edited by Cory_Di at 04-Dec-2004 23:15

Hi,

This afternoon, while visiting a LFS I passed by their trash can, and I saw this little guy in there in a tiny bag, I thought it was dead but he moved and it cached my eye, I have no idea what's wrong with him, I asked the clerk if he would sell it to me, and he just gave it to me. I don't know what to do with him, I just felt he deserved a chance, so could anyone help me with a treatment? He's very active in this tank, in fact he's hungry, but I didn't fed him till I know it's a good thing to do. Any help on saving him will be greatly appreciated.

Falstaf attached this image:

I'd say SERIOUS BLOAT... treat him for that before assuming tumors. Without the scales standing up, I don't thik it's dropsy

He may have a tumour, I had a fish with a similar shape, large tummy, no pineconing. When he died (of unrelated reasons) I dissected him and found a large growth, but he could clearly live with it, as he had been for about a year.

-------------------------------------------------
I like to think that whoever designed marine life was thinking of it as basically an entertainment medium. That would explain some of the things down there, some of the unearthly biological contraptions

he is either deformed in the gut, or just incredibly constipated! He isn't going too bad, you can bring him back from this if it just constipation, i know it looks awful, but if he gutzed for 2 days afterhe blocked up, that size is easily reached.

frozen daphnia if he won't take the pea, and no food other than small amounts of both/either for a week... I don't like explody betas!

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Try feeding him a shelled pea... He may just be really... really... really... bloated...

This Betta looks really really fat. I've actually never seen a Betta so fat in my life. I can't see anything else wrong with him from the picture, so if you could go back to the shop and ask the guy what was wrong with him, that could be the best you can do. It might be that they wanted to get rid of him only because it wasn't selling and getting too old.

Assuming there is a problem with it, I would suspect it has something to do with his enormous belly, especially that you've mentioned that you've not fed it and that it was hungry. One possibility that I can think of is a tumor, but that's a wild guess, really. The other possiblility is that it is so badly infested with worm that his belly has bloated so much, and which would explain why he would still be hungry. Don't feed for a few more days and see if his belly is shrinking. If it does, start feeding him very very little so it will shrink to let the belly shrink to a normal size. If it doesn't shrink then there is a problem. If it worms, they sometimes protrude out of the fish's anus, so try to see if you can spot it. You can treat him for worms even if you don't see any coming out as they don't always do.

So far, this is the only advice I can give you. Hope he's well (and slimmer) soon.

Thanks and i agree, they are awefull to just trash him!!!]:|

I don't know if he'll make it, so far he seems happy and has the best attitude, i hope it's nothing really serius.

Sry, I had thought you posted this couple weeks ago and just seen your re-post under the other topic. GL with the lucky Betta! Lucky as in you seeing him out of the corner of your eye in the trash! Dang stores just leave him to die. Least they could do is put him down quick so he wouldn't have to die a slow death! I'm just curious because I'm learning and I have a red Betta... Take care!

What came of your sick pretty blue Betta?