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I posted this on another website but I'm not getting much help there...maybe I'll have better luck here. I'll just copy and paste what I posted there:

Two of my praecox rainbows (one female and one male) have red swollen bumps at the base of their tails. The female got one first several weeks ago. I thought it started to shrink some, but ended up getting worse. Now just today I noticed one of my males is starting to get the same thing my female has. I guess it's contagious afterall. My female has discoloration of her skin in areas (kinda darkish areas, but the areas look internal) and she's pretty thin. Acts like she wants to eat, but she spits most, if not all, of her food out. I checked on these sites
http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/symptoms.html
http://www.myfishtank.net/diseasedatabase.php#4
http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html#Worm , but couldn't pinpoint what my fish have. Here are a couple really crappy pics of my fish:
http://www.geocities.com/jsramair/Rainbowx01.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/jsramair/Rainbowx02.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/jsramair/Rainbowx03.jpg

I went to the LFS yesterday and the only medicine he could think of using is Naladixic Acid...aka Naladin made by Aquatronics. Hopefully that will work. But something doesn't make sense. On the package it says to only use once and to do a 33% water change in 24 hours. However, on Aquatronics' website they say you can dose up to 3 times over a period of 5 days. They also say to do a 50% water change after 3 days. http://www.aquatronicsonline.com/product/product3.htm They are very much contradicting themselves. I tried googling for Naladin and Naladixic Acid but didn't find many specifics on what it does or on water changes after dosing. Anyone have any experience or knowledge of this medication?

This morning my female died. There were some pieces of skin hanging around the bump by her tail...almost like there was something in there that came out? I'd like to prevent this from happening to my male if at all possible. Sorry for the long post...just trying to give some background information.

[span class="edited"][Edited by J'sRamAir 2004-08-14 10:34][/span]

These are all comments I've archived from board messages written by dan/liv2padl, who I have known for a long time and who has a lot of helpful experience and knowledge to impart on subjects having to do with fish. Everything below was authored by him, with only one or two short comments edited in by me [in square brackets].


Help With Differential Diagnosis* of "Unknown Lumps & Bumps"
The problem with treating "bumps" is that there are a number of diseases that begin this way. (1) tumors or Lymphocystis (which are viral in origin and not treatable), (2) fish pox (which is also viral and not treatable) (3) various forms of ulcer diseases (which are caused by Pseudomonas or Aeromonas and are treatable), (4) HITH or LLE (which have varied causes and treatments), (5) Costia (a parasite that nearly always causes little red hemorrhages, especially under the chin), (6) and various bacterial diseases such as Columnaris.

So, unless you can figure out which (if any) of these your fish may have, treatment is kinda like shooting from the hip.

Lumps and bumps that suddenly appear are usually bacterial infections. If the disease process is due to bacteria, it usually resolves by rupture (like a boil) pretty quickly. The white liquid that oozes out is pus that is formed when the white blood cells (immune cells) die while killing bacteria (in general). The most common bacteria which cause such lumps are Columnaris or Aeromonas.

Wounds that are white on the edges and red in the center are most typically Aeromonas. Those that are red on the edges and white in the center are generally Columnaris. Both are gram negative bacteria. The best treatment for this is any sulfa antibiotic with trimetheprim. This can be put in the water and/or mixed with food -- if you can find Romet B use it.

Costia treatment is best accomplished by (a) first using a salt dip to strip the slime coat, (b) treat for 3 days with Quick Cure (c)run the temp up to 86F for 3 days and then (d) slowly lower the temp to normal at a rate of about 4 degrees over a 24 hour period.

Epizootic ulcerative syndrome caused by Apahnomyces invadans is a disease that works from the inside muscle outward to the dermis/epidermis causing lesions. there has been some reported prophylactic and therapeutic success addressing this parasitic fungus using Rally in combination with standard doses of the antibiotic Kanamycin available at shops in various formulations.

If you pursue combined Rally/kanamycin treatment, use it according to package label instructions, and add one dose of Rally every 3-5 days. The active ingredients in Rally are biodegradable; however, you should run carbon or a Polyfilter for a few hours (and then remove it) before adding a repeat dose.

Treatment for any other 'bumps' and 'lumps' may be treated by a bath of potassium permanganate. You can often obtain this at your local pharmacy.

Notes on the use of potassium permanganate. One drop of stock PP per gallon is equal to 2 ppm. This is the concentration used for continuous treatment as in a bath. PP is usually used for 3 days, or every other day for 4 treatments. If water is not clear in 24 hours (looks yellow), change 25-30% of the water before adding another dose. Light inactivates PP. After adding the PP, watch for a minimum of 15 minutes to make sure there are no adverse reaction. Then turn off the tank lights and minimize ambient lighting (cover the tank).

Some water conditioners can inactivate some medications. NovAqua and PolyAqua will inactivate most metals and quickly inactivates potassium permanganate. Some water chemistry seems to inactivate PP pretty rapidly. It should be pink when you put it in, and stay pink for at least 4 hours to be effective.

Stock solutions of PP can be used on a swab on small wounds or patches of white "crud" on fins. It results in a chemical burn and turns the area dark. Do not use near the eyes, mouth or gills. Hydrogen peroxide is preferred for topical application near the mouth or gills. Use as a one time application, followed by Neosporin creme or Panalog (by vet prescription).



On Various Causes* & Treatments of Popeye
Popeye or exophthalmia is a symptom, not a disease in itself and it can have a large number of potential causes. Some of these causes are incurable while others can potentially be cured on a sporadic basis. The bulging or protruding eye, as the name 'popeye' implies, is symptomatic of this condition.

Potential causes include --- infrequent water changes which results in a buildup of dissolved waste products in the water, Ichthyosporidium -- a parasitic fungus, Ichthyophonus [NOT to be confused with Ichthyophthirius, the parasite that causes "ich"/whitespot disease], 'worm cataract disease' (a function of the invasion of parasitic trematodes or flukes), bacterial infection, parasite infestation by eye flukes, and internal metabolic disorders.

Since the causes of popeye are so varied, the treatment is difficult. Some success has been noted in treatment of Ichthyosporidium using one percent phenoxyethanol at about 50gm per gallon of water.

Treatment for bacterial disease would best be accomplished using tetracycline or teramycin added to aquarium water every other day or mixing food at the rate of 100 mg of antibiotic to 4 oz. of food. Feeding should continue 10 days.

Fish tuberculosis can also be responsible for pop-eye. Since fish tuberculosis is a bacterial disease caused by such as Mycobacterium, the same antibiotics can be used in the same manner for treatment if this is the suspected cause. Other effective treatments for bacterial exophthalia may include chlortetracycline, furazolidone, nifurpirinol, oxolinic acid, oxytetracycline or potentiated sulphonamide.

Unfortunately, these treatments are most effective when injected into the eye socket and less so when used as a bath.

If the fish has eye flukes, malachite green with formalin, metriphonate or copper are good, as are most of the commercial preps for flukes and external parasites.

Popeye is rarely fatal and not particularly infectious. Bear in mind that many of these treatments will negatively impact your biological filter so treatment in an isolation tank is best.


On the Treatment of Flukes (& General Comments on Medications for Parasitic Skin Infections*)
Praziquantel may not be the most effective med in [the case of egglaying flukes, such as Dactylogyrus (primarily infects gills), as opposed to Gyrodactylus (livebearing flukes that primarily infect skin)]. Gill fluke eggs are resistant to this medication -- only the larvae and adults are susceptible. Praziquantel has been found to affect biofiltration from what I've read ... but I have no personal experience with the drug.

There are several ways to attack flukes depending on the circumstances. Where you wish to treat the entire tank (which I think should be your approach), a simple salt treatment is often the safest and most prudent choice. The dose is four ounces of salt per ten gallons of water, maintained over three weeks to prevent reinfestation with newly-hatched flukes.

To use formalin and compounds containing formalin, you should begin with a scrupulously clean tank with added aeration. Formalin should be added to the aquarium at three drops per gallon in soft water and six drops per gallon in hard water for an 8-hour period followed by a 50% water change. These treatments are a bit more challenging and require careful attention to risk and safety factors.

Alternatively, a bath of up to 15 drops of formalin per gallon can be applied for 30 minutes but only with vigorous aeration and constant supervision.

Formalin/malachite green combinations are used according to manufacturers' directions; of the three approaches, this is probably the most effective. Due to synergistic effects, formalin and malachite green together are more powerful than either is alone. Up to three treatments at weekly intervals may be required to knock down persistent fluke problems.


[*True diagnosis with certainty can't be accomplished for any of the above without looking at biopsies or scrapings under the microscope, but what dan offers here are general comments for making the best possible educated guess when going to a vet is not an option.]


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i had the same thing happen to 2 of my 4 cory pandas, and unfortunately i lost them 1-2 days after they developed those red inflamated spots (at least thats what they looked to me)

but before i lost them they were lethargic at the bottom, and if they moved they would swim like crazy, hitting things and swim in circles, do your fish do that?

i searched on the net to find out what it was and couldnt come up with a precise diagnosis but was pointed in the direction of some kind of a internal bacterial infection.

i wish i could help you more....

A shot in the dark about sums it up, alright. I haven't seen any pics or descriptions close to what my fish has. The closest thing I've read of would be some sort of tumor. I'll do some more searching and see what I can come up with.

MidiLand: My female had this bump for about 1 1/2 months. She actually acted completely normal except for maybe the past two weeks. I saw her 'spasm' once a couple weeks ago, but not since then. She's been hanging out at the top of the tank mostly, but she always acted like she had an appetite, despite the fact she spat out most of her food. And about half of the time she was swimming around the tank, albeit slowly.

The fact that both of the fishes developed this bump at the same spot on their body leads me to believe it's some sort of parasite, but all the descriptions I've read up on make it sound like a bacterial infection. So I'm still stumped. Thanks for any help.