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I have a Lake Malawi Cichild tank.

Lately I have seen a few of my fish scraping their sides with rocks. However all look fine, no spots or sores, no ick, fins are spread, eating very well, territorial and aggressive as usual, swiming normal and all look nice & bright in color.

Why do they scrape? Is it a territorial thing?

Set-up is a 54G Corner Tank w/(2)Bio-Wheels (Penguins 170 & 200), plus(2)40G air pumps with TONS of hidding spots, caves & rocks.

Parameters are within acceptable ranges:
Ammonia- Safe & less than 0.02ppm
PH- 8.2-8.4
Water Hardness- 150/300ppm
Nitrites- 0ppm
Chlorine- 0ppm
Temp- 77 Deg F
(results as of 4/6)

Fish: (2)demasoni;(2)snowhite scolofi;(3)white tip afras;(3)yellow labs;(2)blue cobalts;(2)rusty's;(2)red zebras;(1)fullerboni;(1)upsidedown cat

Feeding: combination of "Tetra"-Cichlid Flakes; "New Life" Spectrum Cichlid Formula & Spectrum Thera A+(non-medicated anti-paracitic) pellets on avg. once every other day in the evenings.

Any reason or explanation for the scraping?

It may not be anything wrong, might just be itchy. Keep a close eye tho in case any symptom of anything develops.

Also, has any new chemical been put in the water lately ? A differend brand of dechlor ? Anything like that ?

Do you have a nitrate test ?

The Amazon Nut...

At first reading you would be looking at Ich and you are sure it is not. I would also ask have you added any thing different to the tank at all. I would also do a full water test of your water supply also check with your LFS to see if any one else is having the same problem. If every thing is OK I would still be thinking Ich. If possible remove one of the fish and have a very close look to see if you can see a problem.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

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Keith

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Good Point. They may just be itchy. I did not think about that.

I did do a water change Thursday 4/3. I used the usual items: Prime, Cichild Chemistry, Buffer, API-Aquarium Salt and Tetra Aqua Safe. The only new things I added to the water since was Kent Cichlid Essentials and Stress Zyme.

With regards to NIRATES=0ppm

With regards to ICH, I see no signs or spots but I will keep an eye on that just in case.

All fish seem fine, active, bright, colorful and eat like maniacs during feedings.

I might have my cichlids mixed up but I'm pretty sure that malawis do glance against rocks as a territorial thing. It sounds like your fish are very healthy and the water in good condition.

---

Before you criticize someone walk a mile in their shoes. That way you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

Thank you for your reply.

I want to revise my previous results:
Nitrates- are elevated around 80 ppm? This is based on the chart provided by the test kit.

But was told by LFS this is normally not the most toxic or harmful of the by-products in the tank. Fish can usually do well and not to worry too much about this, however did recommend reducing the amount of food at feeding time and once every other day is perfect, especially with Malawi's.

Has anyone heard if this is true?

The other readings are rigt on target:
Nitrites- 0 ppm
Ammonia- less than 0.02 ppm (safe)
PH- between 8.2 and 8.4 (ideal for Malawis)
Hardness- in the 150-300 range
Chlorine- 0 ppm
Temp approx 77F

I have noticed that the change in behavior (scraping) has been since I added the 2 demasoni about 2 weeks ago.

I also noticed (paying closer attention) that one of my Labs is becoming secluded and is breathing heavy.

In adition several of them are starting to have a long, slinky, slimy, whiteish discharge instead of their usual feces. However they all eat very well, ususal behavior, territorial and very active and colorful.

My LFS thinks some parasite (which is common when adding new fish) was introduced and recommended to start an internal anti-paracitical treatment with "PraziPro" in their food as a preventative measure.

Is this something you would recommend?


Also they mentioned that if I notice that the heavy breathing worstens to add "Formalin" to the tank, which will kill any external parasites and avoid spreading it.
However I am reluctant to go this route due to it's "formaldehyde" content.

Any advice?

Hi,
While "flashing" or some call "scraping" does occur on
occasion, it is normally a sign of some irritation to the
fish's body, generally some sort of parasite, and we are
seeing the fish's attempts to scrape the bugger off.

The Nitrate reading should be no more than 40ppm. Nitrate
is the result of the decay of organic materials within the
tank. Fish waste, decaying plants, decaying fish, and
decaying fish food are some of the reasons for high nitrate
readings. Anything over 40 requires attention. Do a water
change and at the same time vacuum the gravel. If you have
a rising nitrate and dropping pH, then you have what is
called OTS or Old Tank Syndrome. As the organic materials
decay they form nitrates and organic acids which causes
the pH to drop into the acidic range. Again, immediate
attention is required.
Excessive flashing can also be caused by high
nitrate levels as well.
Most aquatic gardeners will keep their nitrate reading
around 10, those with few plants or all fish usually
strive for a zero reading. The plants prefer some nitrate
as they use it to grow, hence the 10ppm level in planted
tanks.

Just some observations...
Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hey Frank,

Good to hear from you. I understand what you mean. However I have no live plants in my tank, mainly rocks, slate and stones. Malawi Cichlid set-up.

I just did a vaccum on 4/3 and 20% water change. PH levels as well as all other parameters are on target.

I have added Nitrate reducing compound (Tetra Easy Balance with Nitriban granules) to help bring the levels down and I have already seen a decrease in the Nitrates.

Now Is is true that this is the least of the toxic compounds found in a tank? That's what my LFS stated yesterday when I visited.

Also why all other parameters are right on except for Nitrates?

Is there anything you recommend to reduce this to normal levels? Also what do you think about the PraziPro and Formalin for the parasites??

Hi,
In a sense, it is the least harmful of the three compounds
that comprise the Nitrogen Cycle. Ammonia and nitrite
will, at the very least, cause extreme stress in fish as
the compounds can burn/scar the gills, and interfere with
the extraction of oxygen from the water and distribution
it within the fish. At the most, they will flat kill a
fish inside minutes if they reach too high a level.
That being said, Nitrate is the least toxic. I've already
mentioned that those that are FO or "Fish Only" generally
will keep their nitrate reading at zero. Those with a
nicely planted tank will run a nitrate reading around 10.

As to how toxic any particular nitrate reading is, will
depend upon the species of fish. Some can't tolerate
much, if any, while others can be found swimming in water
reading in excess of 100. However, those that are in the
extreme highs did not just get dropped into the tank,
instead they have lived for months or even years in that
tank as the nitrate reading slowly increased.

Readings of 40 and over require maintenance to remove the
accumulated build up of organic wastes (compounds).

If your tank has built up to 100 then generally, you
will see your pH drop toward or into the acidic range
(the 6's) and when you purchase a new fish for the
tank, it will probably die within a week or so from "mysterious causes."
"The other fish in the tank
are perfectly healthy... I must have gotten a sick
fish from the dealer," is the usual comment.
Actually the fish in the tank had months and even years to
slowly change as their water changed. The poor new fish
got dropped into the "septic tank" right off and never
stood a chance.

As far as the chemical compound that you are using, I've
never heard of Nitri Ban, nor have I ever had to use any
nitrate absorbing compound so I can't address that issue.

Frankly, I believe in a QT tank, lightly stocking my
tanks, regular water changes with gravel vacuuming,
and plants.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

hello,,,
after reading all the posts to this thread.. i would say that
it is an internal parasite. in a lot of cases fish will scrape on rocks and other decorations even though it is internal and not external. i had this problem with my discus
. with the white stringy poop i would definately say its an internal parasite.
what i had used to treat this and it worked great for me
is general cure by api. although it is mainly for external parasites it seems to work great on internal parasites too.
each dose contains 250mg of metronidazole and 75mg of praziquantel

hope this helps
paul

Hey Fishman...


Thanks for the info. I will check it out. Is this something you add to the tank itself or to the food? I am not seeing any external sigs. I agree with you it's definitely internal. I would like to find something that can be added to their food and or mecated food that will actually clear it out.

Also update on the Water Chem...

Nitrites 0ppm
Nitrates 40ppm (was 80)
PH 8.4
Ammonia 0ppm
Temp. 77F
Hardness 200-300

Looking good!