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If you use an antibiotic (which I think you should), I'd back off on the melafix. It didn't do anything to halt it to begin with so it could be redundant. Do a nice water change before dosing.

I see it. The bad part rotted off. We see this in bettas with finmelt. You can see the discolored portion in the original pic, and that is almost always a write-off as it will break away as dead tissue.

Just be prepared to go longer than advised, especially on half dose. If you stop too soon, it may look good for a few days, then it will start right back up again. I'd also be doing water changes every other day with it.

Actually the base looks O.K, but about an inch after it looks pretty raw. Here's an updated shot, I think you'll agree overall he looks alot better. Dosing 1/2 strength Duran-2 with a little melafix.


http://client.webshots.com/photo/270980865/324501979HqpPQz

My Scapes

That's good. How do the scales look around the base of the tail fin? That looked pretty bad.

Yup, thanks Cory that's what I did 1/2 strength. Other than his tail being half gone, the Angel's behavior is actually back to normal.

My Scapes

I hope it doesn't hurt your plants too. Furan-2 is one of the meds I listed in the context of isolation. It could also be hard on your other fish (cories and characins/tetras) and should be dosed at half strength, unless you see something specifically that states it can be dosed at full strength. Furan-2 is powerful and may be too much on scaleless and sensitive fish. .

I mentioned the half strength with other meds so if you didn't get that, you may want to dilute your tank if you dosed it at full strength, if you have cories or tetras.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 16-Apr-2005 20:42

Cory,

They didn't have Furanase, but they did have Furan-2.
I'm dosing it right now. I just hope it doesn't hurt my plants or other fish.

My Scapes

You wouldn't believe just how fast such a little thing can take them. If you can, keep some meds on hand like the furanase for emergencies. Timing is everything.

Try to get that Anti-Bacteria Medicated Food if you have the . It's like $5-6.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 15-Apr-2005 21:07

I'm going to get Furanase tomorrow. I'm going to be near a really big aquarium (Aquarium Adventure). It's 11,000 sq feet of just fish and supplies so they should have it.
Thanks again for your help. The strange thing is tha other than the tail he actually seems O.K.



My Scapes

Not really. Can you not get one of the meds I recommended? Hex-a-mit (metronidazole) has a very narrow bacterial action and I've never seen it prescribed or suggested for finrot. You need something with a broad spectrum - covering gram positive and negative, and specifically addressing things like columnaris, of which this tail deal could be an extension.

He really needed attention yesterday and every hour that ticks by without med is less likely he'll pull through. Once it gets deep into his system his chances go down, especially if he stops feeding.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 15-Apr-2005 19:31

Is that a yes to Hex A Mint?

My Scapes

Here is the latest pic of my sick angel. He was getting better and started to eat again, but his tail looks really bad right now. Please let me know what you think. This is fin rot isn't it. I've been dosing melafix.

http://client.webshots.com/photo/270980865/322457625EioLFq



Last edited by tetratech at 14-Apr-2005 17:59

My Scapes

Do you think I should use it with the melafix or not bother. I happened to have it around.

My Scapes

Hex-a-mit is metronidazole (flagyl) - something that is effective against protozoans. It is effective against hexamita when it is in abundance in the intestinal tract. Hexamita is usually present in the gut of all fish, but it can become a problem when it overpopulates a particular fish's gut. It is believed that absorption of nutrients is then hindered. Ultimately, some theorize that the related malabsorption is a contributor to HITH (Hole in the Head) and HLLE (Head and Lateral Line Erosion). That particular product, I believe is made by Aquatronics - the company that is either out of business or in the midst of relocating where production is down.

You will find metronidazole in many common anti-parasite meds. In fact, it is the in the new Jungle Anti-Parasite Medicated Food, which can be fed with the Anti-Bacteria Medicated Food (according to a Jungle email I have). In that anti-parasitic med is the metronidazole, levamisol (the only med for camallanus; covers capillaria); and praziquantel (#1 med for intestinal worms).

Metronidazole is most effective when ingested, rather than in the water. I should add that metronidazole is also effective for certain bacterial infections. One, in particular that I recall, is bacterial gill disease.

Continued use can have repercussions - namely kidney failure. It is pretty safe if used short term, but should not be mixed with other meds. It is also safe for plants.

I've used metronidazole (seachem) in my quest to cure continued erosion of cory barbels - something I've been dealing with for a very long time, without recourse. I know my catfish dealt with it well, but I used it at a lower dose where they were concerned.


Last edited by Cory_Di at 15-Apr-2005 16:41

Thanks alot Cory!

Do you have any experience with Hex-A-Mint

My Scapes

Rather than a bucket, you may want to give the furanase a shot at half strength and watch carefully for any worsening. I would also get him on that medicated food as it can work on external infections as well, but the water stuff will be best. Furanase/furanace is ok for your plants.

Some info I found suggested that full strength could be rough on some scaleless fish. That is why I would recommend half-dose until we get word back from AP. I got an auto email from them, but no actual response yet. I'll post as soon as I get it, but that could be Monday or Tuesday. In the meanwhile, lets at least get the half dose going. That is stronger than melafix.

Cory,

Yes same fish. The fish was looking much better and moving and eating again, then the tail started to really rot away. Anyway I don't have a hospital tank, do you think the fish will be o.k in a big bucket with alot of water changes and a heater.

How much time do you think I need to cure him.
Yes I have large schools of tetras, rams and dwarf plecos in there with him.

Cory do you know anything about Hex-A-Mint (Colorless Antibiotic Capsule) Active Ingredient: Metronidazole

Last edited by tetratech at 15-Apr-2005 15:38

My Scapes

I have emailed Aquarium Products to find out if Furanase can be dosed at full strength for scaleless and sensitive fish. But, I don't expect an answer back until next week sometime. That is the dilemma of not quarantining - you must cheat the angelfish out of a full strength treatment it may need, in order to not have adverse effects on your scaleless and sensitive fish. Until you know otherwise, it is not wise to dose at full strength. Hopefully, the package insert will discuss the issue of whether or not it requires half strength.

Tetra - is this the same angel that was gasping for air, had something coming out of its mouth or gill (strands)?

I really think it is time to quit teasing what appears very blatantly to be an infection now, with Melafix. It's time for a heavy hitter. This fish needs antibiotics and I would do so without delay.

With external infections like this, meds in the water are good. But, there is always the concern with it going internal. So, you need something that will cover both internal and external infections. I like the nitrofuran class because it can cover both and is readily absorbed into the bloodstream.

I know I talked of isolating this fish before, if it is the same one. I would do so and hit it with one of the more powerful nitrofurans on the market - Furan-2. You may need to do two rounds so if there is even a hint back, do your water change and begin a second round. You don't want a resistant form coming up.

Because you have co2 running. Try to move some tank water from the tank to the bin or other tank gently so you don't disturb co2 levels and alter pH on him. Let the pH climb slowly on its own.

If I recall, you have scaleless fish and characins (tetras) in here, which can be sensitive to many meds. This would mean it would have to be added half dose to the tank. Unless you can find just plain nitrofurazone (not likely), your plants will not appreciate the additives, in particular acriflavine.

You can certainly try a combination of Maracyn and Maracyn 2 (one covers external the other internal; one covers gram positive, the other negative). These two meds compliment each other and according to Mardel, can be dosed in combination. However, you will see a ghostly appearance to your tank within one or two days as the slime begins to break away from anything and everything. The nitrofurans are nice and clean, leaving the water yellow, but clear.

I did just find this which claims to be plant safe and treat columnaris (shown as black molly disease), fin and tail rot, among others. I don't know if it will cover internal infections as it does not list septicemia or red streaks. But it may be a good first choice if you can find it and don't want ot move the fish.

[link=http://www.aquariumguys.com/furanace.html]http://www.aquariumguys.com/furanace.html" style="COLOR: #C000C0[/link]

Maybe you can find it locally.

This angel needs some heavy antibiotics - now! I would also try to find that Jungle Anti-BActeria Food if you can, even if you have to order it online.

Furacyn would have been my first choice, but it is harder to find now. Aquarium Guys may have it, but that fish needs meds now, not in 3 or 5 days.

Okay I am going to be honest I know nothing about Co2 and such, so you very well could be right dont get me wrong, does look very similar though.


Hope that poor thing gets better!!

Keep updating as you are!



Angel Eel