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Strawberrysue,

I was the one who made the post you referred to. I don't think there is anything at all wrong with "cute betta" posts. I agree with you, this should be (and is) a fun place as well as an avenue for help and education. I'm all for fun. The reason I handed over my hard earned cash to become a premium member of this site over others is that it's populated with what seem to be very nice people ranging in ages from the youngest to the oldest and in experience from absolute beginner to experts at the top of their field, people like Tom Barr who is well recognised in the aquatic community.And ALL of those people have something to offer. This site is very well organised and it is very easy to pick and choose what topics you want to read and contribute to.

My only point is that posts like those from Gary, Calleasia and Babelfish and others have a bit more purpose then "cute betta" posts, but I would never dream of making a reply say "sorry but the cuteness of your betta serves no purpose why bother posting it". ALL posts on EVERY subject serve a purpose even if only to give the poster an opportunity to express their excitement and joy,and they are just as welcome as any other post.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I have to agree with bensaf that sometimes Gary can sound a bit "smug" (no offence meant, Gary) however I found Gary's articles very informative when water quality was a mystery to me in my earlier days of fish keeping and I still find them interesting. Refering to people who read and appreciate Gary's articles as Gary worshippers is simply immature. Master bubbles it's time to grow up and if you can intelligently disagree with Gary's articles I'd love to hear it but until then.....

While I do not visit this forum often enough to have read many Gary threads or to consider myself a Gary worshipper... Here are my thoughts.

A. The fact that some people find help from what is said is good enough.

B. I am also annoyed at people who will buy products like Waste Control and Easy Balance so that they can go as long as possible without taking the poo out of their aquariums. Fish keeping is NOT for the lazy.

C. I have seen the affects of what multiple/over medicating can do to fish (My first aquarium was "inherited" from my cousins who gave up on fishkeeping because no matter how many meds they threw into the 15g tank they couldn't cure their angel's many diseases). By the time I got to Caliban (the angel) his diseases were nearly immune to anything I was told to try. The cure? Salt and water changes. Boy did I learn the fish keeping thing quick.

D. *Pats Gary on the back* Hey, I agree 100% with what you have written here. While some people look down on what you've written, I agree. There are too many people running around buying everything on the shelves that they can add to avoid taking care of their living pets properly.

Honestly...

I'm so adjective, I verb nouns!

I found it quite a helpful post. While I didn't learn anything completely knew it did make me consider a few other things and reasons for not adding or adding salts and meds. I've heard from lots of ppl that add salt regularly to their aquarium and I've considered it. Then I thought these are fw fish and they come from low salt waters so why in the world would I increase the salt from my well water. The answer from other people "It makes it easier for the fish". But if you make it easier for the fish then the fish don't have to work as hard like a muscle wasting away. Horses kept inside out of the weather get sick easier when taken out for work. So I toss my horses out in the rain and the snow bringing them in only for a few hours at the coldest part of the night. If they have no use for an immune system then it won't be kept up to date and they will get sick easier. Also bacteria and fungus both can become immune to frequently used meds such as the bacteria becoming immune to penicillin. Then again these meds do have a place and a fish taken seriously ill for some reason can get a helpful boost. Everything can be harmful or helpful depending when it's used.

Hi I have a question for gary?

what do you think of phosphate (sp?) removers?
I have green away tea bags to remove algae, it works in one tank which is algae free and lovely but not in the betta tank ironically it has algae growing on it!

so are they unneccessary?
do you think they cause harm?
I have kinda come to the conclusion that adding medication to the tank is pretty useless. my fish seem to die either way. so i shall concentrate on the water and the food.
thanks

GFG

_______________________________________
Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey S. Firestone

GFG, have you tested the phosphate levels of your water, cause whether or not they are effective would hinge a lot on if there was excess phosphate for them to remove i should think.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

The "Water Quality Forum" may be the place to ask about phosphates and water-only problems...

In the "old days" a "vanilla phosphate" had an entirely different meaning.

My next article, now that I've cleared the deck of dosing too many additives, will be a summary about purchasing sick fish from local stores.

I'll try to keep the details/minutia at an absolute minimum to keep my readers awake.

--garyroland.

..I was afraid this might happen,none the less its right nor wrong we all have opinions and sometimes share.
Bashing is a little imature,could do without that.

Gary is trying to help with what experience he has and telling US to use our common sence.
I have not always agreed myself with everything gary has said, he is just talking openly here on fish keeping.

] Smug you some say..yes and very knowledgeable..bold if you might say as bold as brass..

I tend to like it

the worst post I did read in here was, the one that said at the end of her post something like this..

There are new members joining everyday who may not be as knowledgeable as you and these points bear regurgitating again, and again and again and serve a far better purpose then the 1000th post say oh my betta is sooooo cuuuutttee

I dont think you want to hear what I thought of that one..very, very sad..we post because we can on whatever we want...
It keeps the forum active and fun..Fishprofiles may not stay number 1 everyday but its all of us contributing.."ALL"

Gary I hope you read this and there is a number 4..
see yah..sue

Thanks Sue...

There will be a new series soon about purchasing sick fish.

--garyroland.

It seems like no one's even debating anything. Just complimenting.

I always thought Gary's posts where fairly concises. Thats a good thing on a forum... it makes it easier to determine if they hold any value to you or not. Then, he seems to 'keep an eye' on them for people posting further questions. So, if you wanted more detail, why the heck didn't you ask?? I mean, i get the impression he's trying to appeal to fishkeepers, like myself, who are more than happy to learn things from someone with more experience. Be it Gary, or someone posting to dispute his view point, it always end's up be a fairly intelligent informative discussion.

So, perhaps instead of claiming his posts are vague, maybe xxmrbui3blesxx could better use his bandwidth and keyboard to ask some actual questions, and hence contribute constructively... rather than just putting up anti-person posts. Come on...xxmrbui3blesxx, lets here some constructive debate regarding Gary's points, rather than just trying to discredit his opinion. 2c.

What exactly would you like us to debate Bubbles? I'm looking, but if you dig thru that bost, its pretty much an opinion on prevention and immunity.

I think that we would all agree prevention is better than cure (although cure is better than death)

Very few of us will accept a product that wishes to eliminate water changes for 6 months.






For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

..Well you should have worded it differently..bensaf..

Posts like "cute betta" or non intelligent people make you puke..nice choice of words..
but hey!
I understand what your saying, sorry you didnt get your dollars worth on your membership..
I dont think Gary has posted in say "photo booth" and it makes sence that he wouldnt.(Correct me if im wrong)
"cute betta" would be in there..stick to the hospital forum.

back to the post at hand.. Gary I have learnt from your posts in here, many Ive read on medicating,water quality,fish disease.
The medicating, Id like to say Ive not just done on impulse but thought I could cure if I use what the LFS has to offer,finding now its not so easy and I agree with letting a fish possibly do its own healing..which in turn would bring us to the water quality. this alone can be the cure and its better than "dumping"..as you would say Gary..unatural substances into the tank..but our water and conditioner is just that..
The fish disease,well I have had one that fish that I decided she should be removed,not that I wanted to see her go,I almost medicated but thought I would putting the other fish at risk..I didnt have a hospital tank,I just knew she was to sick and didnt see the point..I felt better after and my main tank is thriving, doing wonderful..we take the good with the bad and have to understand we cant always find a solution.Dont realy like playing god but it better that seeing a fish suffer.

I wonder what that tank would be like today if I had medicated..:88)

Sue

[span class="edited"][Edited by 2004-08-09 10:43][/span]

Gary has a good point.
In my early days of fishkeeping when i first started out with goldfish I "dumped" all sorts of things in my tank to kill off Ich. I think from memory I dosed 3 different meds. My fish weren't sick....Boy goldfish in season mistaken for white spot...that tank crashed and burned after fin rot and all sorts of other things kicked in after I'm sure I wiped out the bacterial colonies in the tank.
Gary's "rant"ing is educational, interesting and thought provoking. I've said it before and I'll say it again....Thanks Gary! Please rant some more because your ranting has helped me become a better fish keeper.

..Amen..

Rant:

"To utter in a bombastic declamatory fashion."

Declamatory:

"Of, relating to, or marked by declamation or rhetorical display."

I'm in there somewhere. Maybe "bombastic".

--garyroland.

Mr bombastic





For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Strawberrysue,

I don't want to get into a verbal ping pong match with you and bore others in the process, but you are misrepresenting me so.....

Posts like "cute betta" or non intelligent people make you puke..nice choice of words..
but hey!
I understand what your saying, sorry you didnt get your dollars worth on your membership..

If you can find the words you attribute to me anywhwere in any of my posts let me know.I never mentioned un intelligent people, EVER, I am neither that rude nor that arrogant.
I never used the words "make me puke" , not the kind of language I use, nor does it represent the my feelings.
Never said I didn't get my dollars worth, if you read correctly, I think you can see i'm quite happy I got my dollars worth.
These are all YOUR choice of words, not mine. If you can find the words you attribute to me in my posts please feel free to show me. As a matter of fact I'll make it even simpler, if you can find me use those words in ANY post I have ever made let me know.

BTW, Gary may not post in the pic booth, but I do and I'm just as much of a "look at my cute fish" as anybody...but then again I never did say that was a bad thing.

[span class="edited"][Edited by bensaf 2004-08-09 21:15][/span]

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Yea and i'm wondering were all this help is?????????i got fish dying here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you all for your kind remarks...

I write these articles to generate interest in the hobby and generate participation in the Forums.

--garyroland.







[span class="edited"][Edited by garyroland 2004-08-06 10:05][/span]