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Hi. I have a betta that I've been trying to treat for a couple weeks now. He has white stringy growth on his mouth which I assumed to be mouth fungus. Well, I did a Melafix treatment at stronger doses than instructed, and that didn't work. Well, I assumed that maybe it was bacterial/fungal. So, I followed with a Pimafix and Melafix treatment also at stronger than instructed doses. This did not clear it up. I decided to try something stronger so I went with Maracyn-Two. I did two treatments with Maracyn-Two with no success. I then tried AP Fungus Cure also with no success. Yesterday and the day before, his pectoral fins started rotting with no obvious fungus or anything. All of his other fins are fine and have been fine.

I really, really hate to have drugged him so much, but I want to cure him plus I'll know how to combat the symptoms if they ever arise again in any other tanks.

BTW, he is in a 2g hex tank. I have been doing scheduled water changes, and I have done the water changes after each med.

Any help is appreciated because I have no idea what to do next.

Thanks

Often stubborn fungus infections can only be attacked internally with over the counter medicated foods for fungus infections...

I would suggest you attack the problem internally and externally and soon.

--garyroland.

I think you will find more luck with Maracyn, not Maracyn-2. It is ok to dose the two together, but I don't think it is necessary. Maracyn is Erythromycin and it is more effective for such infections. In fact, if you can find another brand of erythromycin that is in powder form (within the capsule), it may be easier to disperse, as opposed to pieces of the tablet.

I would also strongly encourage you to try feeding him the new Anti-Bacteria Medicated Food by Jungle if you can find some at a Petsmart near you. Jungle was only marketing it at Petsmart as of about a month ago. It is new. This will compliment the erthromycin. You will need to crush each piece into betta sized pellets (ok, per Jungle Labs).

Medicated Food Link

Also, add salt - freshwater aquarium salt like Doc Wellstone. Dissolve two level teaspoons of the salt (dissolves faster in hot water). I use an empty aquafina bottle with about 1 cup of water in it, along with a drop of conditioner. I shake vigorously until it is dissolved, then allow to cool for a while. I dribble in a little of the solution about every 5-6 hours until it is gone (I have spread it out over two days).

The salt helps in two ways: 1) Bacteria doesn't like it and more importantly 2) Replaces electrolytes lost through wounds or openings in the skin.

The amount of salt we are using won't really kill the bacteria that much, but every little bit of something helps. The antibiotic, plus the salt will create an unfavorable environment for the bacteria. Siphon out any poop as you see it, and if possible step up water changes to twice weekly (assuming you do so weekly). That extra water quality is critical.

Now, if you net, try to find an alternative method as this can make it worse or bring it on when they aren't sick. I use a tiny betta hex and scoop out my bettas when they least expect it, with a small amount of their water. No contact of net to fins.

Keep us posted. I inherited a betta that was in bad shape. The mouth is the critical thing as that is highly stubborn. The same bacteria that is infecting his mouth, could be causing the fin erosion. The Maracyn stopped the erosion of the tail and some tufts on his side (same bacteria as mouth fungus). However, the key is to watch for a fin that is not getting worse, which means the meds have halted the infection. It's been 6 weeks now since I noticed the halt and completed a round of erythromycin. Ruby's tail showed new growth about a week later and now it has a little ways to go before the ugly is completely grown out.

Good luck with the little guy and let us know how he does. It's tough to beat, but it's possible.

EDIT: Make sure when you do your water changes, you have the same level of salinity while he is not well. Once he shows improvement, you can decrease the level of salinity with each water change. You don't want to create osmotic shock with a rapid change. Make it stress free by gradually increasing and decreasing salinity.


Last edited by Cory_Di at 26-Dec-2004 22:38

Thanks for the help. I will keep y'all posted.

Just...are you doing 100% water changes? Cleaning the gravel too?

Di or Gary? What are the active ingredients in the medicated fish food? The link Di gave doesn't say. We can't get it in Canada.

___________________________________________

If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished.

Since medicated fish food is available in some shops here in the States but can be rather scarce to find, hobbyists can take apart Tetracycline capsules and mix the powder into moist and ground up fish food for Bettas...

Diane should have suggested "Maracyn Plus", a liquid that "treats the fish not the water".

I prefer the liquid used in conjunction with medicated food for stubborn mouth and body fungus that other meds will not touch.

Since Bettas seem to have low resistance to fungus infections that are difficult to overcome, no one can predict the effectiveness of certain meds or procedures, especially with older Bettas.

--garyroland.

Last edited by garyroland at 27-Dec-2004 15:28

I've had luck with Erythromycin on a neglected betta I inherited that had both "fungus" and fin meltdown. That came after Bettamax, Fungus Eliminator both failed to stop it. Kanamycin can be another good one by Aquatronics (powdered capsules).

The ingredients in the medicated food are as follows:

Awww nuts! It was on the outside package. They vacuum sealed a bottle in another package where there was a cardboard insert with info on it. All I have on the bottle is:

Aides in the control of internal bacterial infections (such as bacterial enteritis, septicemia, kidney disease, wasting) and aids with many external infections, open sores, ulcers, columnaris and fin rot....

Gently spread food over water surface so that it floats. Feed exclusively for 5-10 days as required. Do not use with other foods during this period. Feed 1-2 times daily as much as fish will eat. May be used with external water treatments, antibiotic/fungal or parasite treatments. For scavangers and small fish, crush pellets to desired size.

I have emailed Jungle to send me the ingredient list for this and the AntiParasitic food. I do know that the AntiParasitic food has Praziquantel, Metronazidole, and Levamisole - all outstanding drugs. In fact, one of the only ones containing levamisole which is effective for camallanus nematodes.

I recall there being a type of sulfa, a type of furanoid antimicrobial like nitrofurazone or similar. I think there was a third. I can't recall if it was terramycin or tetracycline or similar. I'll post reply when I get it in a day or two.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 28-Dec-2004 12:39

Wow! Here is Jungle's reply with ingredient list - that was fast

Hello, Diane

Thank you for your inquiry about Jungle(r) products. We are happy that
you have chosen our products to use in your aquarium to help you
maintain the best possible environment for your fish and plants.

The product will become available for every one at the end of January.
As soon as the product becomes available to everyone you should be able
to find it in Canada, but until then you can only get it a Petsmart.

Anti-Bacteria Medicated Fish Food
Active ingredients: Sodium sulfathiazole 2.3% and nitrofurazone 0.13%

Anti-Parasite Medicated Fish Food
Active ingredients: metronidazole 1.0%, praziquantle 0.5% and
levamisole
0.4%

Thank you for being a Jungle(r) customer. If you have any problems or
need any other information, please do not hesitate to call our Customer
Service Representatives at 1-800-357-7104 or e-mail us at
info@junglelabs.com. And don't forget to check out Club Jungle at
www.clubjungle.com. Check back regularly for tips and free samples!

Sincerely,

Cassandra Barton
Customer Service Representative
Jungle Laboratories Corporation

If you ever have any questions about Jungle Products, I find they are really good about answering back when you email them at the lab. The most I've waited was about 2 business days, but usually I get 24 hour turnaround.

The contents listed are common ingredients found in many fish meds in various combinations...

Nothing exciting there.

--garyroland.

Except that it is ingested, which is much more effective than waterborne for many infections. Many external infections turn internal very rapidly. This helps boost the immune system from within instead of being a topical in a bath.

Sorry for the delay in my update, but here it is.

I dosed Maricyn and added the salt solution for five days. (On day two I thought he had died because he was lying on his side on the bottom). After the treatment, I performed a water change.

Well, the fungus is gone. But...
The fungus ate one of his pectoral fins nearly to the body (no fin left). Can the fin grow back? Anything I can do to help him out with the regrowth? Melafix?

Thanks.

I would keep in in extra clean water (meaning if you have him in 2 gallons of water and change it weekly, you would change it twice weekly). I would use at least a half-dose of freshwater aquarium salt, predissolved. This would replace electrolytes lost through the open wound.

He doesn't know he is impaired, and if he's like most, has a strong will to live. So, if he can eat and move about, give him a chance and time. I found that even fins growing back after an infection take the better part of two months to show real improvement. If any part of the fin is left, it will grow back, very slowly, but water must be pristine. Remove uneaten food and poop to keep water extra clean (turkey basters work wonders, but just label the darn thing )

Watch for secondary infection. A really nasty external infection can go internal, into the blood stream. This is where Maracyn 2 is helpful or the medicated food I suggested.

Fresh food is imperative. Once a packet of fish food is open, it begins to degrade and much is lost by the 60 day mark. I would encourage Hikari Bio-Gold for Bettas.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 05-Jan-2005 18:15

Bettas use pretty much only the pectoral fins to swim, so keep the water level low until he can motor around a bit more Otherwise he might get stressed at swimming in circles.

Feed him on his bad side, it will be easier for him to get at.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett