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I started the mela-fix and pima-fix yesterday, I lost another oto last night, the rest of the fish look ok. The water is all cloudy though. I am considering tearing the tank down on the weekend, replacing the gravel and re-planting the tank. This would probably stress the fish out but I would feel better. Whatever is in there is causing me a whole lot of grief. The metro still hasn't arrived, no parcel pick-up notes or anything. The temp is now back to 80F and holding steady. The weather outside has been up and down but it is staying the same for the rest of the week, it has warmed up some, so the furnace doesn't have to kick in as much. I definitely need a better heater in the tank as well.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Man, that must be annoying, Being all setup, prepared and ready to go, and not having the needed med turn up.

.

Bloody mail order, always the fatal flaw in the peerless plan.

Finally, it came! I now have the metro, I dosed the tank according to directions. When I went to bed last night I checked the last oto, it was fine, when I woke up I played hunt the oto and it was still alive! Yeah! I will dose the mela and pima fix and the metro all according to directions, I am thinking I should also dose the 10 just to be safe. Now should I add the meds all at the same time, or do a staggered dose, the mela pima combo first thing, then a few hours later the metro? Or does it really matter?
This weekend I will be getting new heaters for both tanks, I checked the temp in the 10 last night before bed, it was 80F, this morning it was 76F. What a drop! The 25 does ok though, but it is on all the time now.
I also ordered blackwater extract and gave the 10 a full dose and the 25 a half dose. The tannins help the fish's scales be more resistant to parasites etc, and I think it also helps to cut down on fungus. Not positive about that last though. I really like the way they colour up when I added it. They are used to peat in the water but I couldn't keep up with how often I had to change it. This way I can add it to the buckets and the new water will match what's in the tank. I may not need to have it in the filter anymore if it works this way.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I dont think staggering doses with mela and metro really matters, they coincidentally happen to be compatible, so if you can kill all the nasties off in one go, why not?

Those temp perams sound a nightmare though, and certainly explains a few unexpected deaths, and maldigestion issues that will compound the symptoms of protozoan and bacterial gastrointestinal infections, I wouldnt let the fish go through another day of that if I could help it. Get the heater situation sorted asap. I sympathise though, we had about 8 powercuts in one day, and though I have a generator, the heaters threw a fit. Im sure the new rams did NOT appreciate it.


Good luck!

Ok, the streak had to end sometime, another danio is sick, this one is completely caved in, before it was pudgy on the bottom. Worms? I checked a couple of disease sites and TB was mentioned, but one said worms could cause it, there is no spine curvature, only the really sharp belly , no lesions either. I removed it but haven't killed it yet. I gave it a small dose of metro and a small dose of mela-fix. I also have on hand Hagen dog and cat wormer(carob flavored), the active ingredient is Piperazine Citrate, 621.7 mg per 5 ml. The site I got the worm info from recommends prazinquantel(bad spelling I know) but 50 grams is over 100 bucks, I have no idea which currency it was in either. What else might I find it in? And what dose should I be looking for, obviously flavor doesn't matter to the fish, though who knows, they may like carob. I am not expecting to save this danio, rather I am hoping to get a clearer idea of what is in the tank. If it's worms, he should expel them after a dose of the appropriate worm med right? I know it seems cruel to use him this way, but he's on his way out and actually looks better since removal from the tank, the other zebra was toatally harrassing him.

Here's a very oddball idea, I have a cat that gets out occasionally, I haven't had him dewormed in a long time, he likes to drink from the water bucket while it's steeping the peat in between water changes, could it be worms from him? He grooms like a cat does so I could see possible transfer, especially on water change day. I know it's off the wall but I'm looking for prevention for the future as well, and if that is the cause, then it must stop now, before the madness continues any further!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

You can get it cheaper than that for ponds etc, and you just scale the doses down.

Looky.

http://www.pondpetsusa.com/medications/prazi_pond.html

It could feasably be the cat,it could even be you -you touch the cat afterall, and 60% of all humans have roundworm.Transmission of roundworm between mammal and fish is comparatively rare, and the term roundworm is a generic term used to include thousands of species variants, fish roundworm tend to prefer and stick to fish. More likely is the fact that your fish have probably always had roundworm, but until things got out of control the worms stayed in balance, when the fish begin to get ill they take over. Some peoples fish have worms all their lives and never get sick. Its really the luck of the draw.

Hey thanks, I'll look for it or something similar, with the same med.
I took out the peat as it is a different peat from the one I'm used to using. It may have had some additive in it that's not good for fish. I can't run a charcoal in the filter until I'm done dosing the meds though right? And I shouldn't stop until I've done a full round of each or else I may create resistant pathogens. I am going to try just using blackwater extract to soften the water and lower KH enough to allow the CO2 to work, so I won't be putting any other peat in the filter for awhile, should I add another sponge to the filter? I have one sponge and a biomax insert right now. I added some cycle incase the biological filter is impacted, I don't know if it will help or not, but just to be safe.
I lost another danio, the other one is still looking not bad, when it starts hiding I'll know for sure that it's going. This is driving me crazy but I'll get through it.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Adding more sponge should increase the biological filtration and thats probably a good thing,but it will take maybe a week to colonise properly , so it may or may not be worth it.Dont use charcoal yet, it will soak up the meds. I found the tetra blackwater extract to be good, if a little expensive for the amount.

Thanks 'Git, I think the blackwater extract will simplify things, I am used to dosing the buckets so I will use less than if I dosed the tank all the time. I will get another sponge, even if it takes a week it will be worth it I think. I will resist the urge to use the charcoal, would a water change be alright though?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Water changes are nearly always a good idea, although if you cut a dose of meds short cos of the water change you can always work out how much you lost from the amount of water you took out and top up the meds by that percentage.

The way I see it, if chemistry is going to hell and you have to do a water change,you gotta do what you gotta do. You can always top up the meds , by adding back the sensible dose for the water you took out. Just be careful not to exceed the tank total dose by adding too much.

I went to Big Al's today, got 2 heaters, one for each tank, another bottle of metro and found that PraziPro in a liuid. I was told by the staff that frozen bloodworms are like MacDonald's for fish, they love it but it's not good for them, and it can carry parasites, I can trace the problems back to my brother giving me some frozen bloodworm cubes and I started giving them to the fish. The first fish started dying soon after that.

I also picked up some frozen mysis in cubes for the fish, they took the bloodworms mixed with metro today and I was going to do that in between doses, mix it with the food so they ingest some, would this work with the prazipro?
So now should I cease the mela-fix and pima-fix and only dose the metro and prazipro? Or should I dose all of them at once? The prazipro says not to mix it with other medications.

After the water change yesterday the tank has been cloudy again, like day one of the pima-fix treatment. It has been 4 days of mela and pima fix, I have dosed the tank with metro twice and fed it once.
At this stage, any help would be appreciated very much, I am so grateful for all the help I've gotten so far. I just want this to be over and everything to go back to normal.
Hope this all made sense, I'm a bit frazzled.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I wouldnt exactly describe bloodworms as macdonalds, but they should be offered as part of a varied diet not used exclusively.Frozen will generally kill most of the bacteria and parasite cysts but if you want to be sure of safety buy the gamma irradiated ones. Live worms are of course a possible source of regular infection.

Id use the metronidazole first,completing the required course, then use the prazipro after, if it says dont mix em, dont mix em. Hopefully the end is in sight.

I treated both tanks with metro and the otos have come unclamped! They have been clamping their fins for so long I was beginning to think they would never unclamp and now they have. The oto in the other tank is still looking good and the danio is looking better, not as wasted. Hopefully the end is in sight as you say.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Well here it has been 4 days since last posting and the danio is still hanging in there, he's not looking worse, nor is he looking much better. I did lose another oto, so now I have no otos in the 25, it makes me sad, but when the tank is all settled down I will try again with them. The mela-fix and pima fix may have been too much for the otos to handle, the pandas in the 10g didn't like the mela-fix either, I lost 2 during that run of meds in that tank, I haven't replaced them yet.

I think one more week of metro then a couple of doses of the Prazipro to be sure. I just did another water change, it was not a metro addition day, should I add some to bring the level back up or just wait for the next dose which is tomorrow?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

sorry I wasnt here to give an answer, I guess I would have waited for just that day

Losing ottos to melafix is damned bad luck, Ive not had one affected by it yet.