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All Right,

I have a thread in the livebearer section stating the “strange” behavior of
my platy (called Platy in Hiding) but now it seems that this should
continue in the Hospital.

Facts:

Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate are non detectable, ph is 6.8, temp is 80C

29G, planted (medium heavy), 40W fluorescent, AquaClear 300 (new is 70),
tank is 3 months old

6 Zebra Danios, 1 Neon Tetra, 3 adult Sunset Platys, 9 Platy fry in cornered
section (by tank divider)


Problem:

I introduced about 8 weeks ago 6 Neon Tetras that developed Ich within 2 days.
I treated it with Quick Cure on a 1/4 rate (tetra and planted deduction) every
other day with 15% water changes in between for 2 weeks. All seemed to be
fine afterwards.

About 4 or 5 weeks ago, I went away for an extended weekend. I used these
pyramid shaped 3-day feeders for that time (don’t think it has anything to do
with it). Anyway, when we came back, one of my Neon Tetras was dead. I
couldn’t even identify why, only his spine and head was left (eaten).

Since then, and up to last weekend, I lost another 4 Neons and 1 Zebra Danio.
1 Neon could have been an accident, he got stuck between a net breeder (the
platy fry was born) and the glass and this could have been the case for hours.
He was as good as dead when I got him out. 1 Neon showed signs of NTD,
except that it was not the red section that lost color but the blue. He had this
coloration for over 2 weeks and then just died. 2 Neons had swollen, almost
rectangular shaped, bellies that I attributed to eggs. They died rather quickly
by beginning to swim sideways and always trying to get to the surface and
sinking as soon as they reached it. 1 Neon showed neither discolorations nor
a swollen belly and just died. The Zebra Danio was the last to die, he was
always a long and skinny guy and one morning was just barely alive hanging
in the plants. No visible sign of infection.

Now, the Platy that had the fry started to hide in the plants about 5 weeks ago,
which I attribute to the male platy chasing her too much (2 females and 1 male
in tank). As of this morning, she is no longer hiding but sits on the ground
below the water intake for the filter and barely moves. Even that fact that the
male is always near her does not make her move. Although she shows no physical
signs, she seems exhausted.

Theory:

I think I got either the NTD or a similar bacterial infection going in the tank.
I would assume that the illness is spread by eating the dead fish; this would
explain why I haven’t lost even one fry. After explaining this process to the
LFS and based on his recommendation, I treated the tank with Small Fish
Saver by Jungle (Description: Use Small Fish Saver to clear saprolegnia fungus
which invades the gills of small and baby fish; Can also use to treat Neon Tetra
disease, Malawi bloat and swollen belly.) Well, I know that there is no cure for
NTD but why not give it a try.

Extended Problem:

I only have this tank, no hospital etc. I will go away for some days soon and
care for the fish in that time is limited to feeding and maybe the scooping
out of loose plants or dead fish.

Current status:

Sad, confused, nervous , frustrated

Thanks for any help and sorry about the lengthy post,

Ingo


Last edited by Little_Fish at 02-Jun-2005 13:06

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

A few things are catching my attention right now.
With no nitrAtes we cant tell if your tank is cycled yet or not. To my knowledge there are a few different ammonia tests out there. Even within one company (aquarium pharm) there are two different tests. One with the first block being .5ppm ammonia the other with the first block being 1ppm ammonia. Depending on the test you may come up with no ammonia yet it could still be there just undetected.

The feeder blocks are suspected to cause ammonia spikes as they release a large portion of food, much of which will go uneaten thus causing a minicyle. Additionally use of medications to cure ich can sometimes lead to complications with your biofilter, again causing minicycle. Anytime that there is a disturbance of the biofilter you get a chance of stress. The fish death if gone unremoved can often times cause the same result with a slight increase in ammonia.

Loss of color isn't just a symptom of NTD. Loss of color is a symptom of stress in general, considering you've been dealing with ich I'm more e to think stress rather than NTD, especially since you didnt mention any of the other symptoms.

Without a q-tine tank there really isnt all that much that can be done in a suspected case of NTD. There is no cure and really the only option if you're sure of your NTD diagnosis (we're not there so we can't as easily confirm) is euthanization.

^_^[hr width='40%']"Has someone taken your faith? It's real, the pain you feel.
The life, the love, You die to heal.
The hope that starts, The broken hearts...
I’ve got another confession my friend, I’m no fool.
I’m getting tired of starting again, Somewhere new."

dAM SAME THING HAPPEND TO MY FISH BUT NO ICH, i introduced a new neon and all my live barers dyed



10gallon: 8neons 5gallon: 1betta
1oto
2platys

Babelfish

First of all, thanks for your response.

My tank cycled in no time, I used BioSpora (sp?) to seed the tank and
could follow the appropriate test result (ammonia and nitrite) for cycling
within 1 week. My levels of nitrate never got to detectable levels, which
I believe is based on my plants that suck it right up.

I had no idea that all of the things you list above could create mini cycles.
If I wasn’t already confused enough on what is going on in my tank, well
you just gave me one more reason. I am not sure on my NTD diagnosis at
all, I just try to find a reason for my die-off.

I guess that’s the price you pay as a newbie. This makes me rather concerned
about the fact that I am throwing myself in a 125G project, maybe I should
hold off until I learn more (or maybe not ).

Thanks again,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yeah, biospira will take care of cycling for you...and yes you're right on the nitrAtes being consumed by the plants. That's another thing you'll want to keep an eye on, too low of nitrAtes can cause trouble as well. Moreso for the plants than the fish.

Just about anything and everything can cause minicycle, sometimes with an effect on the fish, sometimes not. Normally it'll depend on the tank occupants.
Now I've never seen an actual case of NTD, however for me the biggest sign is the swimming difficulties, if you're not seeing that I'd lean more towards the stress factor. Hopefully we'll get a few more opinions in on this one . If you've got any biospira left in the fridge you might try giving a dose of that after a water change. If the feeder blocks thru the tank balance off then you had further troubles due to the deaths the added bacteria may help straighten things out.

^_^[hr width='40%']"Has someone taken your faith? It's real, the pain you feel.
The life, the love, You die to heal.
The hope that starts, The broken hearts...
I’ve got another confession my friend, I’m no fool.
I’m getting tired of starting again, Somewhere new."

Well, I have enough

When I came home from work I checked on the sick platy (as mentioned above) only
to find that another platy was really puffed up. This time, I think I identified the illness
right away. The scales were really sticking out. Dropsy!
I went quickly to this site and read up on its symptoms and possible cure
– quote: “By the time symptoms appear, the infestation is so large that it is too late for
treatment” end quote--.

I caught the originally sick platy and inspected her. Although she did not appear swollen,
when looked at closer one could see the protruded scales towards her tail fin. I assume she
didn’t swell because she hasn’t eaten in days and was actually starving but maintained
her appearance because of the swelling (makes sense?).

Long story with short end, I put both of them to sleep (with the fishes).

Will I have to do that to all of my fishes now, given that dropsy is infectious?

That is sooooo sad

Ingo


Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 02-Jun-2005 19:36

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

hey BABEL i use AQUARIUM PHARASUTICALS and the 1st block on my color chart is 0.25 ppm(mg/L) and the highest reading beeing 8 ppm (mg/L) same with nitrite ]

Last edited by goldfishkeeper at 02-Jun-2005 19:50