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Hi all,
Firstly my paramaters:
Ammonia :0
pH: lowly 6
Nitrates:0
Temp 24C
Tank 120gal community. 3 Silver sharks, 1 Angelfish, 4 Gouramis, 5 Clown Loaches, 3 BN Plecs, 4 small Flying Foxes,3-5 Kribs.
Water changes, not as often as I should but regular.
I've had this set up for at least 5 years now and haven't lost any fish for at least a year. Two months ago I had to remove one Angelfish (4 Yrs old) - loss of equlibrium, just floating about and being attacked. There were no obvious signs of illness with the fish prior to this. Over the last month or so one of my Congo Tetras (3-4 yrs old) developed a bent spine and weight loss and a damaged eye. I treated the tank with aqua master Multi cure (ich, fungal diseases) meds. Things didn't improve so I removed the fish last week and sent it to where fish go. A couple of weeks ago a Blue Gourami (2-3 yrs old) started to develop a bend in it's torso near the anal vent. This is (was) the subserviant fish and generally hid so I don't know when it started. This fish was found dead today and removed from the tank. Now I notice one of my Kribs (2-3 yrs old) has lost equilibrium, has a red vent, and is flashing about and then stopping and being very unfish like- not good signs at all. A pH test immediately showed that the pH readings are lower than ideal. This is normal for this tank, I have always had low pH in it and the fish haven't shown obvious signs or not so obvious signs of stress because of it. I did a 30% water change and will do another in two days to attempt to get the pH closer to 7.

I have thought the initial illness in the Tetra could be a Tuberculosis of sorts, from some internet searches re the symptoms. If that was the case and this disease is spreading what can I do? If not what are the possibilities I should be looking at?

I did a complete tank overhaul after the Angel fish died, removed some plants, rearranged plants, rocks and reintroduced some drift wood I had removed some months ago and complete gravel vac. I left the filters untouched to maintain the bio fliter material and last week did a complete clean of one of two Ehiems 2217's that filter the tank.

Sorry about the long post but ... more info the better to get an answer.

Fish TB can be treated with metronidazole administered into water or injected directly into the fish. You will need to consult with your vet as to the dosage and most suitable course of administration.

Thanx LHG,

"If that was the case and this disease is spreading what can I do? If not what are the possibilities I should be looking at?"

any answers to these questions?

Angel and Flying foxes could be one of the problem. I know that SAE and Angels togethere can be a problem. This is how it works as the Angels get larger and come into a breding mode they release a coating from their bodies to attract a mate. This the SAEs will remove by cleaning the Angels body, I watched this several times before the Angel died.
I am assuming that FF and SAE act the same.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

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Keithgh,

Not in this case, have only just (one month approx) put the FF in the tank to clean bearded algae which they have done fantastically. The Angel pair were never a breeding pair having been together for at least 4 yrs without ever having offspring, possibly two females or two males, I can't sex them. The FFs in this short time have never hassled, approached or seem interested in the Angels at all. But worth considering without this bit of info.

BTW the sick Krib has gone to fish heaven overnight. Any other diseases or problems I should be looking for?

MacBeth,

Rule out TB. Your symptoms do not indicate TB and the disease can only be properly diagnosed with an autopsy. Behavioral symptoms for TB are: anorexia/refusal to eat, lethargy, hiding behavior, "hanging", clamped fins, loss of appetite, general constitutional signs. Physical symptoms are: wasting away, shrunken stomachs, occasionally skin infections, spinal curvature deformity in advanced cases. (courtesy of Pandora's Aquarium)

The "flashing" and red vent make parasites a primary suspect combined with poor water conditions. Although you state that your nitrAtes are zero, it is likely that your nitrItes are zero and that you have not measured your nitrAtes. Water changes in your set-up should be 25 to 30% each week to keep nitrates under 20 ppm with an ideal level of under 10 ppm. Your statement that the pH has fallen in your aquarium is an indication of "old" tank syndrome and rising nitrAtes.

My diagnosis is that your fish are stressed from high nitrates and that has made them susceptible to naturally occuring parasites whether gill flukes or internal parasites. My treatment plan would be a couple of healthy water changes on consecutive days, where "healthy" is 30% or MORE. Do not be afraid of harming your bio-filter with a couple of 50% water changes on consecutive days. It won't happen.

The water changes together with gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance should alleviate symptoms and behavior. If specific fish continue to exhibit physical or behavioral symptoms then consider treating them for parasites in a hospital tank.



__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

Hi Bob,

Thanx for your reply.
Re TB:- what you supplied is what I saw happening with the Tetra, probably got the info from the same site. Not the visible sores though, none present on the Tetra.

Re NitrAtes... could be right there, my Freshwater Master test kit tests for NitrItes only. Can you educate me as to the "safe level" of nitrAte? I thought that NitrAtes are always present because of the 'cycling' of the waste product, didn't know that there is an unsafe level.

As for old tank symdrome.. I did a complete overhaul about two months ago for that very reason.

As for parasites causing this 'flashing' behaviour that one fish (Kribensis now dead) was displaying ... treated the tank as per directions with parsite medicines on hand after the first post and prior to my second.

Will do water changes as you suggest.

Awaiting your reply re NitrAtes.

Hi,
Generally speaking you want to keep your nitrates below
40. That can be done with regular vacuuming of the gravel
as well as regular water changes. How much, and how often
depends upon the bio-load of the tank.

Doing a massive overhaul like that can upset the nitrogen
cycle and force the tank into a mini cycle where the
bactrial colonies rebuild to handle the waste products
of the fish and food and plants that are in the tank.

The same company that makes the Master set also markets
a test kit for the Nitrates. I got mine at the local
PetsMart.

The next time you change the water, mentally divide the
unplanted parts of the tank into four sections. Then, each
time you change the water, vacuum one of the sections.
That way, with every fourth water change you will have
completely vacuumed all of the non planted parts of the
tank. By doing it that way, the cleaned section has time
to recover before it is cleaned again and 3/4 of the tank
substrate is housing healthy bacteria colonies.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

MacBeth,

A maximum level of 50 ppm is recommended as above this level nitrate can become harmful to fish. Ideally levels will as low as possible and below 12 ppm for system containing invertebrates. Much of our tap water is now highly contaminated with nitrates so levels under 20 ppm generally require the use of reverse osmosis water.

- Tetra

I think the key statement above is that "levels should as low as possible". The only ways to reduce nitrates is by water changes and by plant uptake. Nitrates are the building blocks for plant growth but surprisingly plants also utilize ammonia and nitrites. I try to maintain nitrates below 10 ppm in my planted discus tank through water changes.

Tropical Fish Hobbyist has a column titled "The Skeptical Fishkeeper". In the August 2005 issue, Laura Muha looked at the issue of nitrate levels. If I remember correctly, nitrates have an overall deleterious effect on fish health. Although not immediately toxic, nitrates reduce fish capability to resist disease.



__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright