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Yes, sorry I should have stated that the only way to kill ich by temp only is often very stressfull to the point of death to fish. It's only reccomended in the rare cases where meds for medication sensitive fish (like clown loaches) are not available, and will often cause death.

^_^


[hr width='40%']"There’s an emptiness inside her. And she’d do anything to fill it in.
And though it’s red blood bleeding from her now. It's more like cold blue ice in her heart.
She feels like kicking out all the windows. And setting fire to this life."

I meant Scissors rasbarow (it's a word that always gets me).

Fish list is:

3 Neon tetra
1 Betta
1 Scissors Rasbarow
1 Long-fin Zebra Danio

The tank is new, got it about 2 weeks ago. The scissors fish and the danio came with it, and helped cycle the tank for around 2 days before I got the betta and the neons.

Temp drop that I just did was around 2F, so should be ok.

Haven't got a test kit for the tank, so won't be able to tell the ammonia and nitrate levels yet. It's around a 10Gallon tank. No plants, just plastic ones.

Also, how do I remove the carbon from the tank???

T - you didn't mention the size. Unless this is a pretty large tank and it was started with BioSpira, there's no way the cycle would be done in just 2 days. If you have a smaller tank, you could have some relatively high ammonia levels and maybe some nitrite, if you dosed any kind of bacterial starter.

Let's check that just to be safe, ok? If you don't have test kits for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, you can take a bag of water to the store and ask them to check it. But, get them to write the numbers (not descriptions like, "safe" on a piece of paper. This way we can track what is going on as you get more readings.

I find it odd that they would give you one scissortail rasbora, if that is what it is. Those are schooling fish, and if it is the fish I think it is, they get big - like 5 inches big.

Here's the profile - is this it?: http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/scissortail.xml

If there is any ammonia or nitrite at all, it could have dropped the bettas immunity and allowed him to succumb to ich. If there is ammonia, others will also begin to show signs of sickness.

Danios are schooling fish too. Watch so that the danio isn't picking at the tail of the betta, or making him dizzy.

Your neons are characins and they are sensitive to some meds. Typically, anything you use on them, would need to be done at half strength, unless it specifies it is safe for "scaleless and sensitive fish". By sensitive they are including characins.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 07-Mar-2005 17:09

The tank is around 10 Gallons.

And yes, thats the fish, scissortail rasbora. He's on his own, but seems to have made friends with the danio. The danio is also a schooling fish, I know, but doesn't seem too buged. He's/She's the most active fish. A little agressive also, as it seems to be chasing a fish most of the time. Stays away from the betta though. Not complaining though, as I haven't seem any damage on the fishes or stress to be worried.

Will do what you said with the ammonio, nitrate, etc, test. I'll get it done at the petshop.

However, the betta isn't doing much good. Not doing much swimming, but still alive. Just separated it from the rest of the fishes in one of those small fry raising floats.

Will be going to the petshop 2morow (didn't have the time today) and get some medication and hopefully some water test done.

T - I hate to tell you this, but a 10 gallon is no home for a scissortail rasbora. It's a 5 inch fish - pending some time to grow. He'll barely be able to maneuver. The danio will continue to chase any other fish he can because its in his nature. Danios have to be carefully chosen, depending on what other species you have in the tank. They are very capable of making some fish nervous - like bettas. In a school, they chase each other.

With the current stock, this tank is fully maxed out already, just based on the 5 inch adult size of the scissortail (give him a year or so), the nearly 3 inch size of the betta (if he survives).

I'm curious - did the fish store really provide a scissortail rasbora and/or a danio free with the tank - a single schooling fish? Did they mention the schooling requirement? If not, they oughta be slapped up one side of the aisle to the other. I would not have sold anyone a single schooling fish unless they were looking to boost an existing colony.

Sorry, but I feel fish belong in aquariums that comprehend their needs, moreso than our desire to be graced by the beauty of a lone schooler. I spent 2 months researching species for environmental and behavioral compatibility, then I chose the maximum tank size I could handle for them. If all I had to work with was a 10 gallon, then I would have chosen either a school of danios or a school of white clouds, or a school of neons, with a foursome of jullii cories.

I hope you don't feel I'm being too harsh. I just hope you'll consider taking back the scissortail and get more danios, or take them both back with a plan for a complete school of something. I don't even know that danios are compatible with neons as the neons are docile and the danios are dizzying. Not all species are cycle hardy either. White clouds and danios are pretty cycle tolerant. I don't know how cycle tolerant neons are, but from what I have read, they should not be in a tank undergoing a cycle. In fact, if they were put in a tank with a school of danios, I believe the danios would outcompete them for food. I'v seen this happen with a tank containing both white clouds and danios. The white clouds starved to death in a matter of months, unable to feed as well as the danios who were growing fatter by the day.


Last edited by Cory_Di at 08-Mar-2005 17:30

I've just got the fishes last week, and already my Betta has started getting some white spots on it. I noticed around 3-4 yesterday, however, today that number has rissen to around 10. Think it might be ich.

My questions are: 1, how can I stop the dissease from killing the fish and/or spreading to other fishes (neons, sciorse fish, i thinks rasbarow, and zebra danio), and 2, what causes it and how can I prevent it from happaning in the future.

The temperature of the water is around 78-79, and its a new set up, just over a week.

All the fish seem to be swimming nicely without any problems.

Thank you in advance. If you require any other info, please let me know.

p.s., What is ich???

Read the article on Ich and increased the temperature slightly.

by the way, I have Anti-fungus and Finrot medication. Would this do any good.

Let me know please. Thank you.

Tam.

Ich is a parasite. [link=This is a good]http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/disease/freshwater/ich.html" style="COLOR: #EB4288[/link] link to read.

Ich is easily treatable with medications, get to your LFS today and pick one up. Start treating immediatly as the temp of the tank is warm enough that it'll start reproducing quite quickly.

^_^
[hr width='40%']"There’s an emptiness inside her. And she’d do anything to fill it in.
And though it’s red blood bleeding from her now. It's more like cold blue ice in her heart.
She feels like kicking out all the windows. And setting fire to this life."

Lower the temp until you've added meds.

To kill ich by using temp alone you need temps in excess of 95F.

Raising the temps without adding medications will simply speed up the life cycle of the parasite.

If the medications cover ich then that's fine, if not buy one that treats ich.

^_^
[hr width='40%']"There’s an emptiness inside her. And she’d do anything to fill it in.
And though it’s red blood bleeding from her now. It's more like cold blue ice in her heart.
She feels like kicking out all the windows. And setting fire to this life."

Just read the link you sent. Informative. Thank you. But that raises another question: Since it is only the Betta that has the spots, does this mean that it had ich when I got it from the petshop, or just that it is more vunrable to ich then the others?

Likely had it @the petshop. And or the stress of transit was enough to bring it out. One reason why it's important to carefully check the fish you're getting as well as the others in the tank or cups.
Be sure to treat the entire tank even if only one fish is showing symptoms. And as always, remove the carbon prior to medication .

^_^
[hr width='40%']"There’s an emptiness inside her. And she’d do anything to fill it in.
And though it’s red blood bleeding from her now. It's more like cold blue ice in her heart.
She feels like kicking out all the windows. And setting fire to this life."

Please don't just crank the heat up to 95F. This can cause temp stress and if any of those bites have started to infect with body fungus, which is common, it will really bloom. Temp should be elevated incrementally on a daily basis. In urgent situations you can increase it by 4F daily, but not all at once. Rather, it should go up a little in the AM and a little in the PM. Ideally, temp should be changed at 1-1.5F daily to prevent temp stress during the process.

What is a sciorse fish? Not knowing the stock, I would not advise using the heat method just yet. Some fish are tolerant of heat, others are not.

Also, whenever increasing heat, water surface movement must be increased as well. There is less oxygen in the water the higher the temp. This won't be an issue for an air breathing betta, but for your other fish it will be.

Never use any product containing formalin with heat as it is a gas. The combination of gas and heat can kill. Never combine parasite products containing copper with other non-copper treatments. Copper is not removed with carbon and requires water changes.

If you have any pet snails or other inverts you want to keep, ich meds can kill them. Remove to a clean water bowl or other container. They may or may not be able to be returned.

I would like to ask if this tank is new and if these are the first inhabitants. Can you please give us an update with complete stock list, and quantities. How big is the tank?

Since you just added fish and its been a few days, I would ask what your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels are. Let's make sure you don't have a cycle or mini-cycle going on with toxins. I ask this because somehow the betta felt stressed enough for its immune system to drop, while the others have not. Temperature stress, aside from toxins is huge in the implication of ich, especially chilling. A 3-4F drop is a big deal for a fish, if it happens abruptly, such as during a water change or transition.

If you have any scaleless fish, you will need to exercise caution with ich meds. Some need to be dosed at half strength. Others are formulated to treat scaleless fish at full strength, such as Ick Guard 2. When in doubt, treat at half strength.

Here's more info on fish stress:

http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/General%20Freshwater/55519.html

Last edited by Cory_Di at 07-Mar-2005 14:08

Last edited by Cory_Di at 07-Mar-2005 14:08