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I hope it's something that will clear up easily. My tank was setup Dec 28, 2004 and is almost done cycling according to the water parameters. Last water change was Jan 12, 2005 of 25%. There's Planeria in there as well, not to much though. It's fully planted. I live in Ontario, Canada.


ENVIRONMENTAL DATA: (tested last Jan 17, 2005)

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0.1
Nitrate: 5
pH: 8.0
GH: 6.72 dH
KH: 4.48 dH
Temp: 26C (78.8F)

TANK SIZE:

- 20 gal high 24X12


STOCK LIST:
Fish:
- 1 female Betta added Dec 30, 2004
- 2 small 3" Bala Sharks added Dec 31,2004 (both 3" long)
- 2 Dwarf Gourami's added Jan 6, 2005
- 6 Rummynose Tetras added Jan 6, 2005
- 1 Bushynose Pleco added Jan 17, 2005 (2 1/4" long)
Plants:
- 1 Anubias (divided into 3 seperate)
- 1 Hygrophila Polysperma (divided into 2 seperate)
- 2 Anacharis (propogating 2 more small) Added Jan 11, 2005
- 1 Corkscrew Vallisneria
- 1 Hornwort


FILTRATION:

- Penguin 125


LIGHTING:

- Full glass hood with 1 55W flo compact strip light, 9325K lamp. Time on is around 13 hours.


ADDITIVES:

- Aqua Plus for added tap water (2 ml for 20% water change)
- Big-Al's BIO-Support (stopped using 01/12/05 using new and improved Cycle in it's place)
- Big-Al's BIO-Clean (stopped using 01/09/05)
- Cycle (1st time, 01/13/05 20 ml)
- Doc Wellfishes aquarium salt (1st time, 01/17/05 1/3 dose 4 ml in small tupperware container with holes in lid)


INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR SICK FISH:

Here's a pic of one of my Bala Sharks, it's got quite a few salt grain spots on it, mostly towards the head. Behavior doesn't seem abnormal and still eats properly.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/JEG499/balaspots1.jpg

My female Betta though is acting kind of strange. She will swim up to the Penguins intake tube with her head and flick herself off sideways. This morning she was making a choking action a few times and then would swim to top for air. She has a few spots on her as well. Eats properly.

3 of my Rummynose Tetra's have a good number on them as well. Especially the shorter taller one. They also seem to be eating and acting properly. Some of their fins look as though they've been nibbled on.

Throughout the day some of the spots would fall off or get knocked off. First thing in the morning is when it's most noticable.

Thanks alot ahead of time


Last edited by bala shark at 17-Jan-2005 23:13

Last edited by bala shark at 17-Jan-2005 23:15

You have ich.

There are many ways to treat it, as in using salt treatments, and using chemicals with copper in them (which kills the parasite)

All of your fish seem like they can take the ich meds, ecept the pleco.

If definitely looks and sounds like ich

Check into the safety of any treatment with your plec before starting.

Personally I use salt, slowly increased tank temps, and Quick Cure. Rid Ich + also claims to be safe for most scaleless fish.

Good luck to you and your fish.


~~~~~~~~~~~~
There is water at the bottom of the ocean

it's lch by the look of the picture. there are plenty of treat ments out there for this. just make sure you don't over dose and remove any filter carbon.

just wondering, but isn't that tank over stocked, seeing it's only a 20g and it's only newly setup???
should really build stock up slowly after cycle finished??



www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

I just made a post in the "Bottom Feeder Frenzy" section about my Pleco and meds treatment.

The salt alone won't be enough to treat Ich will it? I just read the "Disease Indentification System" for Ich/White Spot. What is the BEST medication available to treat Ich? I can make some tracks ASAP to my LFS to buy it. Thanks.

Here's a small paragraph on treatment I found, is this a good dosing method?

What's the treatment? Malachite green is very effective at treating freshwater ich, and is harmful to only a few species, which should be treated at half strength 12 hours apart, rather than full strength daily as directed. Saltwater baths are also effective for fish that tolerate them.

I don't care how much the medication costs, $20, $40 or even $50.

Has anyone heard if this product does the job, and safely?

http://www.bigalsonline.ca/catalog/product.xml?product_id=28103;category_id=3453;pcid1=2233;pcid2=

Is it true that a fish can become immune to the Ich parasite once it has been cured, but still be a carrier?

Last edited by bala shark at 18-Jan-2005 10:35

Just got back from my LFS, picked up some NOX-ICH and used a half dose. Recommended 1 drop per gallon, I have a 20 gal so put in 10 drops. Turned off lights and placed towel over 3/4 of aquarium to darken further, removed active carbon filter (with black diamond active carbon) from Penguin 125. I also removed the salt becuase of the Tetra's.



Last edited by bala shark at 18-Jan-2005 12:37

Hey bala - sorry this is happening to you. It is one of the greatest pains and one that leaves you feeling hopeless. That one bala looks quite infested.

Understand that no med in the tank will kill ich already on the fish or in its gills. Some fish can harbor ich in the gills with no apparent parasites on the outside. These are much more deadly. It is important to understand the lifecycle of the parasite. I'll let the link below explain the details, but just know that those spots or encasements will fall from the fish to the tank bottom where they will eventually hatch out many more like themselves. It leads you to believe it is done, but it is only a new beginning as new parasites will look for a host all too soon. It is at THIS STAGE, when new parasites hatch from the depths of the tank and search for a host, that medicine kills them. This is why we recommend getting a med in the tank the moment you see even the first spot of ich. It is a sign that hundreds or thousands are in the tank searching for a host.

It is good that you used only a half dose of the Nox-Ich. If Nox-Ich contains formalin or formaldehyde, DO NOT switch to anything containing any kind of copper. The mix can be deadly. Stick to one med and don't switch around as some of the other combos are deadly. If you must switch, then use activated carbon for at least four hours, or overnight, and a partial water change. Copper, incidentally, cannot be removed with activated carbon, for future reference.

Your plants, they won't like any ich treatment, so they are at risk. However, you don't have a choice with that kind of outbreak. If plants start to wilt or rot, trim or remove those pieces as the organic decay can lead to more infectious stuff in the water column.

Fish with ich wounds have openings for bacteria. It is not uncommon to see a bout of columnaris crop up at the site of ich bites. The salt will help with this to a small degree. I would dose Melafix and/or Pimafix in the tank at the same time to deal with the high potential of bacterial infection.

Some may recommend that you up your temp to 86F or even greater to speed up the lifecycle. This however will feed any bacterial infection that the fish will be fighting. Columnaris (body fungus), the most prevalent infection involved in ich wounds, becomes most virulent at 77F (25C)and higher.

Some how, the fish were stressed to bring this on, unless you have brought new fish home within the last week and it was in the bag. Chilling, is a leading stressor that brings on ich. The optimum target, creating the least risk of temp shock, is no more than +/- 1F-1.5F DAILY. Some have a hard time understanding this. However, consider that a fish does not regulate its own body temp like we do. It is governed by the environment. When we drop the tank temp 2-4 degrees with a water change, for example, it would be like your body temp going from 37C - 35C or (98.6F to 95F) inside of an hour.

Hang in there. Here's the link on lifecycle:

http://www.petsforum.com/novalek/kpd57.htm


Last edited by Cory_Di at 18-Jan-2005 23:18

Thanks Cory_Di

It's especially hard for a noob like myself. At least once I'm rid of Ich, I'll be ready for it the next time around. I've lost ALL my Rummynose Tetra's thanks to this little pest of a parasite They all went within 24 hours.

I actually noticed the whitespots sometime around the first week of Jan this year on my female Betta, only a few. At the time I was using the heater that came with my aquarium kit. It was a 100W Marineland dual-temp heater, rated for a 5-20 gal tank. And with the temps we were having then the heater was having a heck of a time trying to keep the temperature steady. It would very throughout the day... 27^C-23^C, 4^C in 24 hours! Not good if you don't want your fish to catch this little critter. I'd had enough of watching the temp swings, so I went out and bought a 100W Ebo Jager heater, rated for a 20-30 gal tank. This heater has been awesome!! with no temp swings. TIP! don't have short arms and deep pockets when it comes to purchasing a GOOD quality heater, your fish will thank you

I did a partial gravel vacuum and 25% water change today. Added 5 mL of Aquaplus tap water conditioner, 10 of mL Cycle, and 10 drops of NOX-ICH (made by WECO) last, mixing it in as I slowly added the drops. Lights are still off.

Thanks again

Last edited by bala shark at 19-Jan-2005 15:31

Sounds like you are doing everything right. Stupid heaters. You picked the right one by the sounds of the post I made in General Freshwater on the topic.

[link=http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/General%20Freshwater/53242.html?200501181721]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/General%20Freshwater/53242.html?200501181721" style="COLOR: #C000C0[/link]

Keep us updated.

It looks as if the NOX-ICH is doing it's job! I can't really see any spots on my fish anymore, I know that doesn't meen the parasite has been killed off, but it's a good sign. The Gourami's never looked like they had any spots since the outbreak.

Well it's day 3 of the NOX-ICH treatment. Is another partial water change and garvel vacuum in order before I add the meds? Thanks

I would, but be mindful of that temp. Look at the thermometer and the refill should not alter that temp more than 1C. If it dips low, even briefly, they will be in trouble again.

Either way, it is definitely time to have the med in there now. Since they have fallen off the fish, they are now multiplying on the bottom where they will hatch off hundreds again very soon. It is at this point, that the med will kill them off. It sounds like you are past the danger, but don't let your guard down yet. This is the most critical phase. Depending on temp, we just don't know how many days it will be before they hatch.

How long does the Nox-ich tell you to leave it in when you dose? If they say 3 days, it may be based on a certain temp. If you are lower than that temp, it could take longer.

Once this treatment is over, I'd let that tank cool off for a good 4 weeks to make sure no other parasite stragglers have made it through (meaning don't add new fish which will have lowered immunity due to transfer) or it could bring on a whole new outbreak.

Patience pays bigtime in this hobby. Waiting an extra week or two is nothing in comparison to losing more fish, the way I see it. I did my stocking with a q-tine system and still waited some 4 weeks between adding any new fish. It gives the tank and the fish time to adjust.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 20-Jan-2005 14:38

Ok, I didn't do the water change for a number of reasons.

- I figure since the water tests I ran today were good (pH=8.0/Ammonia=0/NitrItes=0.1/NitrAtes=5)

- The fish are still under alot of stress due to the little bug-ger that took over their turf, and a water change may make things worse. I think that I'll leave it until tomorrow or Saturday maybe to do a gravel vacuum and 10%-25% water change.

- There's really no signs of the parasites (Trophozoites) being attached to the fish, and like you mentioned the Trophont has fallen off the hosts and is hopefully released the new Tomites which will then be killed by the NOX-ICH.

Current temp is holding at 29^C/84^F, with lights still off, feeding only once a day. Dosage for the meds say it should be used for 3 days. Would it hurt to continue for 1 or 2 more days maybe by using the same or slightly lower dosage?

Here's what the ingredients label looks like on the back.

Active Ingredient: sodium chloride, malachite green 1.0%
Inert Ingredient:.........99.9% Total..........100%

Thank you for all your help, it's greatly appreciated

Did you raise your temp to speed up the lifecycle? Just be careful. There is less oxygen with each degree. As I mentioned earlier, there is greater risk of allowing a columnaris infection to take a grip on any bite wounds. I normally add an airstone or two whenever I feel the need to crank up the heat. Hopefully, you increased that no more than 1.5F per 24 hours. Not that anything will happen, but that things can happen when it is not gradual.