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I see. I missed the part about noticing the ucler the night before. Yes, I agree that some infections are fast acting. I seen columnaris take the face off of a new rasbora in just the 8 hours I was away at work. He had one small cotton puff on his lip when I left for work and I dosed the q-tine tank with Maracyn & Maracyn2. By the time I got back - no mouth and all was gone up to his eyes. Poor bugger was still swimming around . I euthanized him promptly.

My suggested treatment for open and raw skin ulcers always has been and still is the combination of Tetracycline and Melafix...

It works great on Golds also if the ulcer hasn't had the chance to enter the muscle tissue.

--garyroland.

could have been anything, i agree with the overuse of the columnaris diagnosis, but after having all manner of presentations of aeromonas a few years back and not ever seeing anything like this, and having those 2 be the most common serious infections, i am leaning towards it.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

"Columnaris" seems to be a popular diagnosis these days, right or wrong...

Early signs of this disease are greyish-white marks or patches around the mouth, or on the body or fins of the fish.

These may appear thread-like, particularly around the mouth, giving rise to the incorrect name of "mouth fungus".

Fins will deteriorate and sores may appear on the body. The gills may be affected, giving rise to bacterial gill disease. It may cause shimmying behaviour in trops like livebearers.

There are several strains of this disease which may, or may not, react to antibiotics (gram negative).

--garyroland.

i tried, i really did, but it was so incredibly deep and moving so fast. I think it was more the shock that got her more than the infection itself... but i could be wrong.

yes, i'm sorry, i missed the bacterial reference, been having a very scatty week!

I thought that it probably was columnaris in saddleback presentation, very very lucky nothing else got it as she was in a shared tank at the time.

It was jusat mindboggling how fast it moved.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

If you read another post of mine, Calla, you'll notice I mentioned "bacterial" intervention in the fish...

If the bacteria were present in the "water" I suggested in that post that the water could contain the danger also.

Your pic is a fish with an advanced skin ulcer, one of many I've treated for people in the past.

--garyroland.



Last edited by garyroland at 01-Nov-2004 19:42

Wow Callatya - looks very similar to some columnaris infections. I believe there are four known strains of columnaris with the most survivable being of low virulence. However, we know for a fact that one strain is so virulent, in temps above 77F and in high alkaline water, it can take a fish out in less than 12 hours. The same strain hardly does anything in neuthral or acidic water and is slowed by lower temps.

That appears as similar as pics I've seen in some books I have where the many "faces" of columnaris are documented (red outlines with white - sometimes creamy smooth, other times fuzzy; saddleback lesions; a few raised scales with a pussey-filled bump; mouth fungus and even one type of fin degradation).

I agree about the inbreeding. I think they call it "line-breeding". If I ever breed fish, I'll travel half way across the state or get mail order fish from out of state to get the mate.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 01-Nov-2004 19:28

if its what i think it is, its bacterial, not water related (tho, bad WQ never helped anyone)

these fish have been so completely inbred i'm suprised they can swim straight some days.

a similar thing happened to Fairypants within 12 hours, see below. Does that look similar to what you experienced?
that photo was taken about 6 hours after i notiit, 6 hours later there was a fleshy dent where the fluffy skin is showing in that photo.

Callatya attached this image:


Last edited by Callatya at 01-Nov-2004 07:02[/font]

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

You may have seen the skin-eating bacteria on humans that has been televised in recent months...

It spreads super fast eating dermis as it goes and will consume an arm or leg quickly right down to muscle.

Please be careful when handling the trop and the water it was in. If this stuff is animal to human transferable you could be in danger.

--garyroland.



Last edited by garyroland at 31-Oct-2004 11:34

I just lost a very beautiful crowntail betta.I've had him for around 8 months and then last night I noticed a big sore on his side.This morning all the skin on his side was peeled back exposing everything under his skin.He died shortly after I found him this way.He was in a bowl all by himself so I know he wasn't attacked by another fish.What could have caused this?

Yes it was really his skin.I could see his meat and everything.He lived like that for a few hours until i put him dowm.It looked like someone took a fillet knife to him.

The statement was:

"This morning all the skin on his side was peeled back exposing everything under his skin"...

There are skin eating bacteria, Diane, that can eat away a trop's dermis causing large and progressive ulcerations, similar, but rare, in humans.

I've only seen it once or twice and have no idea where the bacteria originated. It's almost like a fast acting cancer.

--garyroland.

Was it really peeling skin, or could have been excess mucous, which looked like peeling skin? Costia infections can do this, among others.

What size bowl was he in?

I keep my bettas in two gallon containers and change the water weekly. In small bowls and betta hexes well.... I wouldn't recommend those because the temp can fluctuate rapidly and it is a boring life.

Thanks everyone for your responses.The guy I talked to last night said he has never seen anything like that and that water conditions were not a factor.He tested the water and said it was fine.He said maybe if the fish had been dead for a day he could see it falling apart like that,but not alive.

Gee...

And all this time I thought I was an expert.

The infection often begins beneath the scales and quickly becomes evident, in one day, as it erodes through the skin and scales.

--garyroland.


Last edited by garyroland at 29-Oct-2004 20:19

If you keep the fish in a bowl, I wouldn't say changing the water once a week is adequate, as waste will soon build up and pollute the water, causing illness, probably need to increase water changes.

I change the water every week or as needed.The water quality is pretty good and I do have test kits.Everything was fine yesterday morning and when I came home from work he had the sore.I am pretty stumped about the whole thing.I'm going to ask an expert tonight.

Water quality must be tops for Bettas...

As soon as ammonia starts to rise in small tanks it eats away the skin of the fish which causes skin ulcers.

I believe nitrites, an unstable acid (nitrous), will also cause skin irritations leading to skin ulcers.

Use a test kit to reveal the water values.

--garyroland.



Last edited by garyroland at 29-Oct-2004 13:21