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Hi,
I was wondering if anyone knew what this disease is? For now there are no changes in eating or swimming habits, but a large spot on his body has turned white colored, with red on the outside part of it, between the white part and his normal yellow body. there are also red spots in the white area. It appears as if his scales have turned white, and the scales seems slightly loose or up in just that one area.

Any help for identfication would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Knowing if your fish is fresh water or salt water, as well as the species, will help us identify the disease

From what you've said so far, it sounds like skin flukes or a bacterial infection seem to be the possible culprit. As far as treatment, I can't say yet without knowing what the disease is for sure and what type of fish it is.

Other helpful information (if you can provide it) is: ammonia, nitrate, nitrite and pH readings, water temp, tank size, and tank mates. Also, are there live plants in the aquarium?

Post back and we'll try to help you out

><>Dani<><

[hr width='40%']I don't want another pretty face
I don't want just anyone to hold
I don't want my love to go to waste
I want you and your beautiful soul

Ah, I knew i forgot to put in some information .

As silly as it sounds, i'm not sure what exactly it is, but its an african cichlid (yellow with black stripes). Just tested it now.. it says:

Ammonia: 0
nitrites: 0
nitrates: 10-15 (hard to read the color)
PH: 7.6
water temp: 78 F
tank size: 135
tank mates: other cichlids (red/orange zebras with some blue electrics.. and some other african cichlids ). Also a sailfin pleco.
No live plants at all.

I don't have a digital camera, so I can't show a picture.

Ulcers can be caused by aeromonas infection, or a type of ulcer or lesion can be caused by columnaris. Since the fish exhibits other signs of columnaris infection (aka body fungus) with the scales lifting locally and the outline, I would lean in the direction of both being columnaris. But, to be safe, we should cover it both ways.

Columnaris is a common bacteria in most aquariums. It grows on rotting fish food, among other things. An injury, such as from another cichlid ramming it in the side, can create an opening by which the bacteria enter. It can eventually lead to an ulcer. Below I am putting a link to a discus site, that happens to have some thorough info on columnaris in general. Now, they may not have antibiotics and meds that we have here in North America. Any infection that has progressed to that stage, imho, should be treated aggressively with antibiotic. Columnaris can be highly virulent and easily transmitted. My guess is this guy had an injury that led to infection.

However, by all means try the salt dip outlined in that link within the discus site. At the very least, it will boost his electrolyte levels, which are easily decreased with any open wound.

I would isolate this fish if he is the only one who has a problem. However, since it is highly contagious, carefully study the fins (fraying/erosion), scales (white outlines/lifting), caudal peduncle-just in front of the tail fin for dulling of scales or other lesions, sometimes bordered in red. Another common site is around the dorsal fin - sometimes referred to as "saddleback disease". It looks like lots of different things are going on in the tank, but all are rooted in the same pathogen.

A rubbermaid bin of 5-15 gallons makes a good quarantine, depending on size. An airstone or two (use a check valve or create a drip loop) at a minimum helps keep o2 levels up. A cave and fake plant provide stress relief and comfort. If you have no heater, set it up in the warmest room you have and wrap it in a blanket to slow the temp drop. Use a lid to prevent suicide and to keep the blanket from wicking out water. With columnaris, it is better to keep the temp below 77F as it is more virulent at 77 and higher. Always transfer the fish with some of his own tank water if possible. Just don't deplete more than 30% of the original tank's water and replacement water should be within 1-1.5F. An abrupt rise can cause columnaris really bloom. An abrupt drop can lead to ich and more columnaris as it often infects ich bites.

I would definitely get this fish on medicated food and water born antibiotic. I would do salt dips daily as described in the link below. Columnaris hates salt. Medicated food is now available from Jungle within the US. You will have the most luck at a Petsmart, as they only recently started to ship to other outlets.

http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441806679&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023693&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302030134&bmUID=1110344418622

I would use an antibiotic in the water. I would use Maracyn (erythromycin), which is the same as E.M. Tablets, or E-Mycin (by other companies). Or, you can use a nitrofurazone based antibiotic like that found in Fungus Eliminator or Furan-2 or Furacyn. Treating the main tank with these things can be messy and hinder the biofilter, creating more problems.

Act fast as it is deadly. Let us know how it goes. If you are worried about mixing the oral med and water antibiotics, then use then I would use the Fungus Clear with the medicated food. Jungle recommends feeding Pepso Food, which has the same antibiotics in it as their new medicated food for the most part - sulfas and nitrofurazones. The new food is similar except it is for longer term use, as opposed to Pepso which is only 3 days.

The reason for medicated food is to deal with internal infection, which is almost certain at this point.

http://article.dphnet.com/cat-02/columnaries.shtml

EDIT: Hadn't noticed you lived in Canada. At one time Jungle said it would distribute the medicated food in Canada, but I don't know if that has happened yet. If not, you'll have to try your luck with waterborne meds, or we can give you a recipe to make your own medicated food using tetracycline. It's made in gelatin. If you cannot get the medicated food, your best route of water meds would probably be Maracyn AND Maracyn 2. The second one addresses internal infections and they can, and often are dosed together.


Last edited by Cory_Di at 08-Mar-2005 23:11

Last edited by Cory_Di at 08-Mar-2005 23:13

Thanks for the wealth of information. I had a fish with similar symptoms die a few days ago, and just noticed it on this guy. I'll read up and make sure i take appropriate steps. thanks a lot!

Forgot to add, I have antibacterial goldfish food, think its ok to use this as well for my cichlids?

Last edited by Aregma at 08-Mar-2005 23:33

Is it MediKoi? Or MetroMed? If so, excellent choice. If you have both, they can be fed together. The second is aimed more at internal parasites, but is better at controlling certain infections than the first. If the pellets are too big, just crush them down.

I didn't mention either of these because usually it is Goldfish and Koi people that store it (or at least those who have an issue with one of those types of fish).

Please update us on its progress. I'm really a fan of some salt treatment in these cases, if anything because the fish can suffer osmotic shock from salt imbalances (lost through open sore).

I use this:
https://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php?productId=8&catId=5
medi-gold

You mentioned if i worried about mixing oral and water medicines, is there a risk associated with this? Is fungus clear less effective than maracyn?

Thanks again for your help! I have begun feeding the medi-gold and started salt dips on the sick guy, and will buy the medicine soon

There are different strains of bacteria. One person will have complete success in treating such conditions with a nitrofuran class of antibiotics (fungus clear, furacyn, furan-2, etc.), while another person has complete failure with it. Others have great success with Maracyn and Maracyn-2 while others have failure with it. I think it is just the strains.

As a rule of thumb, I watch the fish carefully. If the med is going to work, you should see it regressing within a day or two and the fish getting better. If it is not going to work, you'll see nothing happening after 4-5 days or it will be getting worse after 2-3 days. At that point I would do a 30% water change (same temp), run activated carbon for a few hours, then pull it out and switch meds.

It's all guesswork - we can only give it our best guess without microscopy. By the time we could culture a bacteria, the fish could be dead. Unfortunately, we can only go on visible symptoms for the most part.

If you have a microscope, then that's a whole new ballgame. You can take scrapings. You might confirm what the fish has, but still can't be certain which of several antibiotics would work, or would be resistant.

I happen to like working with nitrofurans because I know they can cover both gram positive and negative. If I use Maracyn to cover a possible columnaris infection, I need to back it up with Maracyn-2 to cover a good potential of internal infection that would follow. If something is fresh and not there for days or weeks, you can probably assume it has not become an internal infection yet.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 09-Mar-2005 17:40

My fish is cured! Thank you sooo much! The salt dips and medicated food seemed to cure most of it by itself, I added fungus clear just to make sure, and now it is swimming happily

Excellent! Please note that the minimum number of days required for treatment, even if all symptoms disappear. It is either 10 or 14 days. DO NOT stop feeding sooner than the timeline suggested. Otherwise, you could end up with a resistant strain of the infection which will not respond to the antibiotics. I don't know which antibiotics are in MediGold, but Rick Hess states that there are three. Most of those kinds of foods are aimed at severe infections like Ulcers, which are so hard to treat.

I'm so glad he's doing better .