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ENVIRONMENTAL DATA

background to sick fish

Ammonia
Nitrite (note the “I&#8221
Nitrate (note the “A):0 - all tests came out in the safe range on my strip tests.
pH:7.6
Temp:78



Tank Information

Tank Size:35 g
Stock List (Quantity/Species):three keyholes, three clown loaches, one pleco
Fish size for larger fish; all fish are under three inches long
Filtration- two internal fluval 4 s

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Additives
aqua plus water conditioner
mixyzin (10ml today)

INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR SICK FISH

Key Hole Cichlid
dark in patches, off-white fuzz a tiny bit on mouth.small HOLE IN GILL PLATE - small and red, seems very very weak,
Lethargic, rapid breathing, sits on the bottom, hangs out at the top with head down (or head up), darting in a spiral fashion, swimming slowly without orientation, choking, flicking against objects in the tank or gravel

has been hiding for the last two weeks, i thought it was because the other two had paired up? but no today suddenly he has all these things wrong.
can any one help
cheers
GFG



_______________________________________
Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey S. Firestone

Thanks for supplying all the great info.

I hope the "safe" in your parameters = zero. Even 0.25 or less can be a problem.

A hole in the gill plate is not a good sign. In fact, I would highly recommend quarantining or euthanizing this fish because there is the possibility of Piscine TB. I had a betta with a hole in the gill plate and later read in one of my fish medical books that such a hole is almost certain to be a sign of fish TB.

The fuzz definitely sounds like columnaris, but if he has TB it would weaken him. Fish do not have to have all symptoms of TB like open sores or pop-eye, or even bent spines to have TB.

The spiraling and erratic swimming you see tells me this fish is probably near its end, maybe within hours if it only recently started. Such a fish should NOT be left in the tank to die because others will feed on him and it will enhance their chances of catching the disease, be it TB or not. Bad infections like those causing septicemia or TB can get into the central nervous system and affect them much like meningitis or encephalitis would affect us. I've seen the erratic swimming in several new fish I had in quarantine within hours before death.

TB is transmissible to humans who are immuno-suppressed, but only in the form of wounds that won't heal on the hands & arms as they get exposed in the tank. If you have openings, use gloves. Siphoning becomes an issue too as one individual was confirmed with this type of TB after he sucked in some water while starting a siphon and already had a throat infection or raw throat. These are treatable, but most docs wouldn't think to check for it. The conditions become chronic.

There are many ways to euthanize, unless you want to quarantine and just let nature take its course. Use as much of your own tank water as possible without depleting more than 30%. REfill both the tank and container (rubber maid bin is a good quarantine if no chems or soaps were used in it). Put in a bubbler, a fake plant and make him comfortable in a dim, warm setting.

To euthanize, there are many methods. Flushing, drying, boiling and now, even freezing, alka-seltzer, are considered inhumane. If you have a stomach for it, you can smash it over the head hard and quick (not a tap ). You can knock the fish out with an antisthetic in the form of Clove Oil (health food stores and some pharmacies will carry it). Here's more on that:

http://www.petalia.com.au/templates/StoryTemplate_Process.cfm?Story_No=1885

If you have a fish vet, you may want to consider a necropsy be performed to confirm or negate TB. If it is positive, then you have a choice to breakdown the tank and sanitize everything (and likely euthanizing all inhabitants), or letting things be and watching the tank (I like this approach). Fish TB often afflicts older fish whose immune systems have declined and it can happen in most any tank. I would not add any new fish to the tank for a good 6 months to a year. Even if you don't have a necropsy performed, I would not add new fish for some time just to wait it out and see if others will go the same route. New fish stress existing fish and vice versa. Stress = lower immunity.



Last edited by Cory_Di at 18-Feb-2005 17:38

Hi Cory I knew if anyone answered it would be you!

The fish in question is alone in a ten gallon bin now with me being paranoid about the heater melting the side of the bin(not to mention Mum being paranoid about the marks its leaving on the carpet). I don't honestly think he or she will last much longer. he has gone very dark.

i have no clove oil so I can't pts. i will wait and see if he is still alive tomorrow I will go get some I have used it before.

I hope it isn't tb. i have no room in the tank for more fish any way so new fish won't be an issue. thank you for you help. I have printed out your answer and added to my fish folder in case any of the others go the same way

thanks again
Lucy
xx

_______________________________________
Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey S. Firestone

Sorry to hear you have a very sick fish

The Amazon Nut...

Geek - you can always attach a low voltage heater to a plate or other glassy type object that is resting on the bottom.

At least make sure he has water circulating with a bubbler and a fake plant to make him more comfortable. You can try to dose some salt in there to make it easier on him. Predissolve 2 Tbsp, then slowly dribble some in over several hours. Use freshwater aquarium salt. Doc wellfish melts fastest in very hot tap water with a little conditioner in the water. Let it cool some, then add it.

well the cichlid is still alive, only just, in the main tank I have lost one Clown loach.it had no syptoms that i saw.

the hole in the Key hole cichlid's gill has healed.he seems to have part of his mouth missing? he is the ten G - i have a tile with the heater stuck to it the temp is 78'.(thanks Cory Di)

he is barely swimming and eats a tiny tiny bit. his colour is so dark his markings don't show up.

so could it still be tB? or does he have some thing else?

thanks for any help people
GFG

_______________________________________
Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey S. Firestone

GFG I'm sorry to hear that the prognosis seems so poor for your fish. I just wanted to congratulate you on the clarity and precision of your posts here in the hospital forum, and for the way you seem to be caring for your sick fish.

And just a note about your answers to the perameter questions (in case others haven't caught on) : + o = so the perameters that show as "" above are actually zero.