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my fantail goldfish recently developed a lump on it's side. now, there appears to be something white coming out of it. it almost looks like...crab meat. hard to describe.

does anyone know what the heck this is? should I grab hold of my fish and gently squeeze it out? The fish's behavior has not changed, and it has a normal appetite.

29 gal, fish is 10 years old, ammonia/nitrite/nitrate are all normal

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Last edited by denny at 31-Jan-2005 15:49[/img][/font]

Denny, that looks like a columnaris infection. Don't squeeze it as it could enter the blood stream if it hasn't already. Columnaris shows its ugly face in many ways from mouth and body fungus, saddleback lesions and even a small number of scales lifting with that white stuff. I've got pics in some of my fish medical books, of the many ways columnaris can look and yours is textbook.

Is the goldfish in a tank by himself? If not, who else is with him? Got scaleless fish in there?

I advise three things if you do not have the complication of other fish in the tank. This is very deadly so I would act quickly. Being that it is coming out from under the scales he is at greater risk than just having it on the surface of a fin, so act quickly.

1) Salt at 0.3% solution. This comes to 1 Tbsp per gallon of pure aquarium rock salt. You can divide that into three portions and dose every 12 hours by dissolving first, or you can put the whole ball of wax in a glad type container, poke holes in the lid, sink it and let it dissolve on its own. It will likely take days. I'll include a pic of my setup. This is not adviseable if you have scaleless fish. With other goldies it is ok.

2) Get the fish on medicated food if you have some or can get some. The best on the market would be a combination of Medi-Koi and Metro-Med. However, it could take a week or more for you to get them through the mail and I don't know what effect freezing may have on them. As an alternative, Jungle now makes a great medicated food called Anti-Bacteria Medicated Food. You will have the best luck finding it at a Petsmart. Jungle plans to make it more widely available very soon.

http://www.tsekoi.com/koi_food/medi.html

Jungle Anti-Bacteria Food Link


3) Get something like Furan-2 and if you can't get that, try getting Fungus Clear Tank Buddies. The latter is not as strong, but may work better than Maracyn (Erythromycin).

Waterborn medications do not work as well as oral. Being under the scales and into the derma it would best be treated through the bloodstream versus bath. I don't know that Petsmart will carry AP meds like Furan-2, but it was available at Petco.

Let us know how he does.


Last edited by Cory_Di at 31-Jan-2005 18:47

Sorry, man! Didn't notice you were in Canada. Supposedly Jungle was expanding the medicated food to Canada soon. Don't know if it got there yet. I believe you can purchase the medikoi and metro med, but shop around by doing a search on line. I've seen varied pricing up to over 20 bucks and as low as 12 or 14. The challenge is that MediKoi itself may not be effective against columnaris. I believe they suggest MetroMed for that. The two can be combined, but it is very pricey. However, it is the best medicated food, bar none, for goldfish and koi.

Oops! Meant to show you my glad setup for slow dissolving salt. It would take about 5 days to dissolve that much salt, if not more. It will dissolve faster with a shallower, wide container. Only rock type, like Doc Wellfish is ok for this method.

Also, salt is helpful in replacing lost electrolytes and columnaris doesn't like salt. A 0.3% solution is effective against most costia, which may be at the root of the infection. There are resistant strains of costia that require a 0.6% salt solution, but this is a good start. It is imperative that the salt dissolve slowly.
You can speed it up by "pumping" the lid. I push on the lid a few times and a lot of salt will come out. I do this periodically when I want to accelerate. Otherwise, dissolving the salt in a small amount of hot tap water in a bucket with conditioner and letting it cool to room temp will dissolve it fastest. Then you can space it in 12 hour intervals.

One other word - monitor ammonia and nitrite daily starting about 2 days into antibiotic treatment and up to 3-4 days after it has completed. Keep him on medicated food a good 10-14 days and only medicated food. Keep something like Prime on hand. When medicating the tank I put in as many drops as I have gallons each morning. It will curb any ammonia or nitrite and slow a potential minicycle.

Cory_Di attached this image:


Last edited by Cory_Di at 31-Jan-2005 18:37[/font]

Last edited by Cory_Di at 31-Jan-2005 18:39

Last edited by Cory_Di at 31-Jan-2005 18:46

darn, i was hoping it wouldn't be something serious like this

but nevertheless, very knowledgeable post! thank you so much!

there is a petland 20 min away, I'll make the trip tomorrow and see if the medication is there. I will also use salt.

after reading your reply, I also read up a bit on the disease. apparently the bacteria that causes this is always present in tankwater, but it will only affect fish that have undergone large amounts of stress (he is alone in the tank)...so completely emptying the tank and starting over is pointless.

i hope he survives long enough for the meds to start working

Last edited by denny at 31-Jan-2005 20:43

After I posted I was thinking that it could be the beginnings of an ulcer, to which goldfish are quite e. Either way, if you can find an antibiotic that has furanoids in it, I think that would be your best bet. Those are better absorbed from the water. Furan-2 happens to be one of the strongest.

There is another med on the market, also by Aquatronics, called Nitrofura-G. I don't know if Aquatronics are available in Canada but check it out.

Is he showing symptoms such as lethargy yet? Maybe you caught it early. Don't sweat yet . They have a way of bouncing back.

If you can't find medicated food, let me know. If you want, I can post up a recipe you make on your own. You will want to pick up some tetracycline tablets for that. Its ok to mix antibiotics like this. Let me know if you want it and I'll put it up. You can let the salt and water med work while you cook up the medicated feed. .

I should add that it is very, very important that parameters are in check. This means ammonia and nitrite are zero and nitrates are lower than 40ppm and preferrably around 20ppm. This is difficult with goldfish as they produce a lot of waste. Before you medicate your tank, you may want to do a partial water change, even tonite, then followup with another one tomorrow. Just make sure you don't drop or raise the temp in the process. Note the temp and make sure you don't move that thermometer more than 1C. A sudden rise can make columnaris move much more swiftly. And, on that note, it is more virulent at 77F and higher. So, if this is a heated tank and if it is above 25C, drop it 1C daily until you get to below 25c. This won't stop it, but we don't want the temperature fueling it either.

Hang in there - he didn't last 10 years being weak.

EDIT: I see Canada does have some AP stuff. Here is Furanase so look for that if you can't find Furan-2 or Nitrofura-G. It comes in a smaller package too. http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/5802/cid/3839

Last edited by Cory_Di at 31-Jan-2005 20:57

Last edited by Cory_Di at 31-Jan-2005 20:58

Hey guys, just popping in here to say that we do indeed carry jungle products here in canada, the best place to find them is Wal Mart, beleive it or not If you go into a PJ's Pet Center they'll give you this blank look cuz they stock Hagen products.

I have seen the medicated foods by Jungle in PetSmart here in Edmonton months ago, so you should be able to find it in your area.

Also, if you're looking for a furan based drug, why not go with jungle Fungus Eliminator? I always recommend that particular med and it will definitely be easier to find than aquatronics meds. Hopefully Cory Di will have some advice as to whether or not this is a good med for you to try.

Just remember, Walmart or PetSmart

My recommendation would be Furan-2 if it can be found. It is strong stuff.

It's unclear to me, which of the Jungle Products is strongest when it comes to similar things. They sell Fungus Clear Tank Buddies, which I think is stronger than Fungus Eliminator. They sell Binox which is stronger than Fungus Eliminator. But I don't know if Binox beats Fungus Clear or vice versa. There is more salt in the Fungus Eliminator and I think that is why it is not as strong as Binox or Fungus Clear which is mainly a blend of furanoids. I recommend adding the salt separately.

Here's a chart from Jungle, but I don't know if they've updated. Glad to hear you have seen the medicated food in Canada. I hope they have it soon at Walmart and other stores. Jungle said the end of January we would see it more widely distributed.

http://www.clubjungle.com/uploads/pdf/fish_chart.pdf

Note that for "fungus" it also lists Fungus Guard. I wouldn't waste my money as it is aimed more at true fungus as opposed to bacteria that looks like fungus, the more common affliction.

Also note how the chart recommends Pepso Food for almost every bacterial infection. In fact, I forgot to mention that one. If you see Pepso Food you can feed that, but I'd feed it a good five days, not three. Its hard to nail some bacterial infections with waterborne meds.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 31-Jan-2005 23:47

unfortunately, my fish died this afternoon

that disease acted so fast- one minute he was fine, the next he's dead.

i've got the meds though, so if any of my future fish start to come down with this illness, I'll be all over it