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I really need some help figuring out what to do next for my oldest boy Gavin.

Gavin has had what i (and lps) first thought was fin rot on his anal fin since may 21. to start it looked like a red clump on tip of fin, now it looks like vertical white streaks and stringy at tip. you can actaully see some on his rays poking out of the fin.

He's in a 1/2 gal tank, water change everyday, temp 74-76. With water change 0.5ml aqua plus + 1/2 tsp of salt added. pH 7.4, alkalinity 90 ppm, total harness 120 ppm, nitrite and nitrate 0. He eats 8 pellets/day and he's not very active, just chills at the bottom and comes up for air when needed, no flaring or bubbles since before "rot". I estimate his age approx 1yr 4mo.
I used jungle fungus eliminator for 3wks and two 4day treatments of tetracycline with no improvement. 2 Wks ago, he had approx 1.25cm of good fin before body- performed rot removal (http://www.bettatalk.com/answer30.htm) hoping that this would solve the prob for good. Since then i've been treating with maracyn 1 and 2 plus water changes everyday. The fin rot removal has not stopped the progression of the "rot".
hummm.. thats a little confusing, let me clarify a bit;
2 weeks a go i did the rot removal then did 1 full treatment of maracyn 1 and 2
- last week i treated him with maracyn 1 and 2 plus maroxy
- this week ive been treating him with maracyn 1 and 2 plus maroxy i have actaully been upping the dosage just a smidge.
(i leave 2 fully days between starting another treatment)
i have been bushing on wound control by aquatronics (its merbromin) the past 3 nights.

I did some more investigating on the web and discovered that Gavin might not have rot at all, but it may be a fungus. Grrrrrrrr So i purchased some maroxy and it seemed to help for the first 3 days of treatment. Although now he is looking really poor, all his other fins are fine, even some regrowth on his tail, but and the back of his anal fin there really isnt any fin left *big pout* i can see the rays sticking out, and it looks like hes got some fungus or something whitish in the corner between his tail fin and anal fin. below are some pictures that might help.

I'm really stumped and so hearthbroken, i dont know what to do next for my little guy. He is such a trooper and has come so far - all i wanna do is make him better. Any suggestions would be truly awesome. Thanks in advance guys and i'll keep you posted on his condition.

here are the links to his pictures, they are in order of least recent to most recent.
http://www.myfishbox.com/members/maui/gavin.jpg
http://www.myfishbox.com/members/maui/gavin1.jpg
http://www.myfishbox.com/members/maui/gavin3.jpg
http://www.myfishbox.com/members/maui/gavin14.jpg
http://www.myfishbox.com/members/maui/sickgavin1.jpg
http://www.myfishbox.com/members/maui/sickgavin.jpg

Oh maui he doesn't look good.

First off, get him a larger container if you can. It's really hard to dose meds in a container that small and you don't want to risk overdosing him. Even a food safe plastic container would be really good, you'll want at least a gallon of water to play with so you can cut down those water changes. 2 gallons would be best because then you could leave it for a full week to get the full power out of any treatments. They are supposed to accumulate in the water as you treat them before you do water changes so changing it every day, although it's good to keep the water clean, is probably reducing the effect of the medication. It's also stressing him out more, which will make it harder for him to fight the infection.

It looks like it may have progressed to the point where you have fungus and a bacterial infection. I'm thinking it's bacterial primarily because of the change in behaviour and it looks to be although the pics are fuzzy.

For the fungus I would use some pimafix since it's safe to dose it with antibiotics and he's probably quite stressed from all the chemicals he's been subjected to. Kanacyn is a good broad-spectrum antibiotic that you might want to try. If you can get mercurochrome it can be applied to the wounds after the rot has been surgically removed to prevent reinfection.

thanks for the response trystianity.
im a little worried bout putting him in a larger container as he seems to have troubles getting to the surface for air - i think it may be b/c hes off balance due to fin loss.
But i see what your saying with not having to change the water as much i could give the meds a chance to build up.
hummm... i'll see if i can find a large shallow container...
Priafix sounds like a good idea and i like the fact that i can use it with other meds.
I will look into picking up some Kanacyn, my lps doesnt have any but im sure there must be some place around here that does.
Your help and suggestions are much appreciate by myself and gavin.

The fin rot can be trimmed off with a scissors while holding the fish in a moist soft towel...

Take a que tip soaked with Melafix, an anticeptic, and swab the fins liberally.

Wait a couple of minutes and replace back in the tank.

This can be repeated until healing begins.

--garyroland.

gary is the expert on surgery. What he said does work. I've had to do it to a fish before.

I like to suggest it as a last resort after meds, some, have failed...

It may be a first action if the rot is bad enough to take immediate action.

--garyroland.

Thanks for the suggestion.
I have tried the rot removal surgery, but it wasnt successful unfortunately.
I dont think hes got enough fin for me to try it again
the spot im most concerned about it in the corner between his tail and anal fin. Im not sure if its clear in the pics but there really isnt any fin left there - just stubs of rays poking out.

Im finishing up his last day of treatment on maracyn 1 and 2 plus maroxy tonite - tomorrow i got hunting for a different medication.

would using the melafix swabing without the surgery be helpful at all?



[span class="edited"][Edited by 2004-08-06 22:33][/span]

You can only remove "slough" (sluff) a few times before you reach the fish's body...

I would suggest that originally not enough slough was removed to begin with thus the infection continued.

An antibiotic added to the Betta's food should prove helpful and Melafix only dosed to the water.

The antibiotics you have should be fine mixed into the food or mixed in some squashed peas.

I can't see any further advantage of direct application of meds.

--garyroland.

gary
yeah, i believe i messed up a bit with the surgery and didnt remove enough *shucks!!*
i purchased some kanacyn today, do you think i could try mixing a smig of that into his food?
i can get my hands on some primafix and i'm tempted to start using that rather then melafix, what do you think?
thanks for all your help

No water soluble antibiotic is necessary at this point...

The problem must be treated internally with any broad spectrum antibiotic.

Melafix, a weak anticeptic, can be dosed to help control any remaining bacteria.

--garyroland.

Gary
Gavin stoped eating tonight - tonight of all nights he wouldnt eat *sigh*
I think this may be the end of the road of him, he's looking very poor and just lingering at the surface in the corner.
thanks for all your help, i'll keep you posted - hopefully he'll perk up enough to get a few pellets in him.

bad news - gavin has passed away.
i found him this afternoon, it was so hard. my mum doesnt want me to buy any more fish cause i get too attached and teary.
i did all that i could and i know hes gone to a better place, he wasnt enjoying himself anymore. his illness taught me a lot and for that i'm thankful.
i cant decide if i should bury him in fishy heaven in guelph (where i go to school) where my other fish rest or make a spot for him here at home...
i miss the little guy so much already, he was my first betta fish, the one that started it all (i now have 11). i never thought it was gonna be this hard
thanks for all your help, it was much appreciated