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In an attempt to replicate the natural water conditions for my SA community. I need to lower the ph. The tank ph is around 8.2. I would like to get it around 7.5 or less. Im going to try and do this by aging the water change water for a week and fiddling with the ph there. My water is very well buffered but my question if the new water ph was lowered do I have to worry about the ph jumping up when I put it in the tank. This would be after I completely changed over the ph in the 75g.

Hi,
I'm curious why you want to "drastically" change the pH
of your water.

Not addressing the process, but IF you get your tank water
down to where you want it (I guess somewhere near neutral)
AND you properly age & treat the replacement water, THEN
I don't see that you will be changing or greatly influencing
the tank water when you do partial water changes.

Please don't be misled by the figures in the books.
Nearly every fish will live and even breed in the water
that you have. THE most important thing is a stable pH,
not necessarily centered around a text book number but
rather stable at "some" number.
Except for fish caught, and imported directly from the
wild, every fish in "our" fish stores has been bred in
water with pH values above neutral. They are used to it.

If you decide that you and your fish absolutely must be
in water with a pH of 6.6 to 6.8, then you will have to
invest $$$ in the process.
You can dilute the water with RO water (the output from
an Reverse Osmosis Filter), or even Distilled water.
Or you can purchase a product called "pH Down" that
is available at any swimming pool supply store.
Don't purchase the stuff at a LFS. If you do, you will
pay dozens of times the price for the same stuff.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

The only reason why I want to lower it is too maybe get my diamond tetras and festivums to breed. I can guarentee that they wont breed in my water. I would also like to keep some cardinal tetras but I know that my ph is too high. Also i've heard that the festivums show better color in lower ph. I would also like to keep discus some day but I need some more experience.

Hi,
The breeding urge in fish is controled by the need to
continue the species and to bred at times when the chances
of the fry to live to maturity is greatest.

For some, the rainy season is the trigger. Most of the
year the fish are confined to the stream beds. However
during the rainy season, the streams/rivers (etc) overflow
their banks and the fish are able escape the confines of
the beds and range out into the newly flooded areas where
food, shelter, and sluggish water can be found. Here the
fry stand a better chance of surviving predation, and have
plenty of food. To simulate the rainy season, folks
do a massive water change (50% or more)

Temperature is another trigger. When the water warms up
and insect life abounds (summer times) the fry of some
species have adequate food available, the water temperature
is warm enough so the eggs develop rapidly and therefore
are a little less libel to be eaten, and the warm water
and food is available for the season.
To simulate the summer months, we obviously increase the
tanks temperature.

Others require that the eggs be laid on vegetative material
and then the water evaoprates simulating the conditions of
a hot arid summer. When the rains come again, and there
is swimming areas and food to be eaten the eggs hatch
and the fry live till the next summer. Killies are a fish
like that.

While you may change the water down to that of a
South American stream/river in which they are caught wild,
many times simply increasing the amount of a water change
or increasing the heat, is enough to stimulate the
breeding urge. You don't necessarily have to keep them
at a specific pH year round.

Just something to think about, and an opportunity for
breeders to chime in with their experiances.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Declan,

Frank has two very good posts in response to your original question of reducing pH and then breeding. Let me take it a step further.

Your fish will spawn in your cureent water parameters. However, the spawn will not survive because of:
- water conditions
- tank set-up
- predation

If you would like success in spawning, you will need to determine the optimum water conditions and tank set-up. Having identified those two variables you may then attempt to minimize predation.

I maintain discus in 7.8 pH water with 300 microsiemens of hardness in the 125 gallon tank. At times, I will have 3 pairs spawning in the tank. This orgy will typically occur after a water change where I drop the temp from 86F to 84F with an approaching thunderstorm. Sound like the start of rainy season?

No fry will survive these trysts because of the other discus in the tanks, the rams in the tanks and the corydoras in the tanks. Oh and the pH is too high for viable eggs!

If I wanted viable discus spawns, I would set-up breeder 20 gallon tanks with air driven sponge filters and spawning cones. The tanks would be bare bottom and unheated I would then drip RO water through a container of peat moss. This water would then be blended with tap water to arrive at a slightly acidic or neutral pH with hardness at 75 microsiemens.

In the meantime, the 125G planted discus tank is great and when I decide to raise spawns again, I know the fish are ready!

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

I don't really think the ph makes the difference in getting fish to spawn. It's more trying to replicate what happens in nature. In some areas a dry season means lower water levels, harder water(not being diluted by rain but water is evaporating), or more tannic acid from having more things like leaves in the water. The rainy season would include higher water levels and more diluted water. Changes in air pressure around a storm has also been considered to help with spawning fish. Another thing to consider is the type and amount of food varies by season. Some people will hold off water changes and feed a very small amount for a few months then do several large water changes and increase the amount and variety of the food. I would do more research on those individual fish and start with increased water changes as well as a wide variety of foods including some live if possible.