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For those of you using python's or similar for gravel vacs and water changes, I have some questions:

1) Do you pre-fill something with your new water so that chlorine and chloramine have time to get neutralized (even if you use a chlorine/chloramine remover)? If yes, how long do you fill it ahead?

2) If you fill straight from the tap (city water, in particular), do you just add your dechlorinator/chloramine remover straight to the tank at the time of water change? If yes, do you ever notice your fish reacting strangely, like lurking at the surface more or breathing heavily?

I think I'm going to purchase an 18 gallon rubbermaid bin to prefill with water at least a day ahead (not practical for me to store weekly) and attach a power head to it for filling my tank. I found that even 10 minutes after filling my 36 gal tank with 9 gallons of water, one of my goldies lurks at the surface for a while. I measured chlorine with a tester and got 0.5ppm, which was labeled "danger". I'm starting to think that routine exposure (in my case weekly), could cause damage to their gills?

Any other opinions?

[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-07-05 16:30][/span]

I have always wondered how people use the Python and dose dechlorinator and get it at the right measurement. Im glad you asked the question because I am thinking about getting one. Lugging buckets back and forth gets to be a pain!

Diane and Songbird..

Hank and I use a Python on our larger tanks and take the water directly from the tap to the tank. I add the dechlorinator to the tank as the water is flowing into it. I measure out the amount of dechlorinator I am going to need, put it in a shot glass and top the shot glass off with water The fish act fine, no change. We have never had an issue.

Regulating the temperature can be the tricky part.

Thanks for the feedback.

Tammy - are you using it during the cold months too? I'm concerned about putting too many gases into the tank.

I still think I may try filling an 18 gal rubbermaid bin the day before and dropping a pump into it so I can siphon water from it to the tank.

I want to see if that is too much trouble. Of course, in a pinch, I know I can do it straight from the tap. In my case, my 36 gal goldie tank got a little neglected and I didn't do a water change for two weeks. My nitrates climbed to about 60ppm, kH dropped down to 40ppm from a typical 120, which it ranges on all my tanks and tap. pH was at about 7.4 in contrast to all my other tanks which are around 7.7-7.8. I was going to do daily water changes of about 15-20% to get things back on track, but I'm concerned with daily exposure to the chlorine. I didn't know how long it takes for the chemicals to neutralize. Ammonia and nitrite are 0. After yesterday's water change the Nitrates were down to about 35ppm and the kH was up to about 80ppm. Does this make sense? I know my tap water averages like my tanks, about 120ppm. Don't know how to convert to degrees.

There are two fish in the 36 gallon. The ryukin is about 3 inches and the oranda about the same. They will eventually go into a 125 gal when I move, most likely next year. I may have to go to twice weekly water changes, but I'm going to get it back down to about 10ppm and see what happens in a week's time.

[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory_Di 2004-07-05 19:35][/span]

But how do you measure out the dechlorinator...I guess you have to mark the tank to know exactly how much water you are taking out so that you know how much water youre going to replace??

#2 - I always fill the tank directly from the tap with the python and add the dechlorinator at that time. I've never noticed my fish acting strangely.

I use my python religiously, but do things a little bit differently. I keep a 5 gal water can near the tank and refill it right there by the tank, add the water treatment, then pour it in...still not lugging buckets around. I've added it directly before too, guesstimating how much amquel to put in, but probably add more than needed due to being paranoid. Either way, never had a problem.

Diane...
I've not had any problems regardless of the season. The only issue that I have found with Summer versus Winter is you have to adjust for the temperature differently. It's OK to be overly cautious. I guess over time I've kinda come to know what the limits are and as long as I stay in those limits and know what to watch for fish behavior wise, I take advantage of the convenience of using the Python.

Songbird.. It comes from experience. I pretty much know at any water level in the tank what it is going to take to refill it to the top within a few gallons.

There was a point in time where I didn't want to use the Python either for some of the reasons you both stated. Once I tried it and saw that there were abslutely no ill effects on the fish by going straight from the tap to the tank there was no turning back.

Hi there

I also use a Python and even posted a query in FP about the way people use it before I bought one. I have adopted to filling the tanks up straight from the tap and putting the dechlorinator while this is happening. I even tried putting all the dechlorinator first and leaving the Python to fill it up while I was doing other things. Either way, I have never experienced any problems.

I was adamant at even buying one as I do not want to have any nasty surprises but I have given in to it and have enjoyed my water changes even more - now that I do not have to lug in bucket after bucket of water! I do have a few tanks and this has reduced my water changing experience to around an hour and a half with most of the time spent doing other stuff like relaxing!

So what you guys are saying is its not critical to get the dechlorinator exact when re filling?

I like Jakes Idea...seems safer to me.

Jake's idea is a conservative solution, but IME unnecessary unless you are dealing with really finicky fish, in which case temperature might be a major concern as well, so you might just want to go with the vat-&-pump approach to pre-treating your change water.

That said, I've been maintaining over 1000 gallons of fishtanks for the last 3 years with using a Python to refill the tank directly, adding dechlorinators (no chloramine near me, but same idea) as I fill. I use a fairly concentrated product, Kent's Chlorinex, and I usually double-dose. This ensures that whatever water I add, and whatever water the tank's owner adds in between my visits is dechlorinated (just in case they forget). I've never had a problem with this approach.

I typically only do 10-20% water changes every 2 or 4 weeks, respectively. If you look at the ppm concentration of chlorine or ammonia (from chloramine) in your tap water, you could figure out the effective diluted concentration in you tank when you top off with tap water after a water change.

Does anyone have measurements for chlorine/chloramine levels in their tap water? I'd be glad to do the math fr different %-water-change scenarios if someone can supply me the numbers for their tap water.


That said, the larger a water change you plan to do, the greater the impact on your tank's water parameters will be...your changes will be in the right direction for the long term (good to avoid chronic issues like nitrate poisoning / old tank syndrome), but could cause some bad short consequences, as too big a change in any parameter will stress fish (ie, acute osmotic shock).

This can be alleviated for some parameters, such as pH, conductivity, hardness, osmotic pressure, by increasing the frequency of water changes (ie, the water in the tank is only a day or so older than what you are about to put in to top off, so it won't be that different), but this doesn't help for things like ammonia, chlorine, or temperature...these things will always have more of an effect in large water changes than they will in smaller ones.


[span class="edited"][Edited by jungle-jim 2004-07-06 12:30][/span]

[span class="edited"][Edited by jungle-jim 2004-07-06 12:31][/span]

I have a python but have never used it to top of my tanks like that. I always put water in a bucket first, dechlor it and heat it to the same temp, then pump it in to the tank. Don't really feel like risking my fish.

[span class="edited"][Edited by Gauntlet 2004-07-06 12:47][/span]

I have a python, but I have only ever used it twice. I dunno, it just never took.

I normally vaccuum out into an old cooler that I have.

I then keep a 10 gallon stand-up watercooler jug full of water sitting in the closet. I fill the jug up from the tap, add in my dechlorinator, and then drop in an old airstone from an old aquarium to keep it circulating while it sits.

When it comes time to change, I just carry the cooler jug to the aquarium, and pour it in.

I use the Python as well and do not use any chlorine neutralizer at all. I have four tanks (2 @ work, 2 @ home). At work I just "waterfall" the water into the tank. The chlorine level in the tap water is real low to begin with and it off gases with the agitation it receives going into the tank. Cl is non-detectable in the tank just after a water change.

At home (different water company) I use an RV water filter (charcoal canister) that fits into the python system by hose fittings. This removes the chlorine and sediment (house is built in 1895) that is in the water lines.

I match temperature by feel and also haven't had any problems with fish stress due to water changes. I keep a suction cup type thermometer in the tank that is at the level I want to drain for my water changes as well.

I've been using this method for about 2 years and it works great.

[span class="edited"][Edited by techjak 2004-07-11 21:26][/span]