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  L# Neutral Regulator?
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SubscribeNeutral Regulator?
zeketaz
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My ph is high so I bought some neutral regulator to get my ph to 7. Well the tank is 45 gallons and I put 2 teaspoons in and it turned my water cloudy and now my plants and gravel have like a white film on them. I plan on doing a gravel vac and water change or should I wait?
Post InfoPosted 16-Dec-2009 12:53Profile PM Edit Report 
Callatya
 
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What was your pH? What is it now? I don't like the sound of a white film and cloudiness but the last thing you want to do is have the pH jumping all over the place.

Contrary to what books and a lot of pet shop employees will tell you, pH isn't so much about the *right* level, as a stable level. Most common aquarium fish are happy in anything ranging from 6.4-8.2, and some are happy outside of that. The trouble with pH is that it isn't as simple as adding a chemical and having it do what you want. 9 times out of 10, you wait 3 days and it has sprung back to where it was before. This is because there are other aspects to water chemistry that have an effect, and unless you look at them all, you can't really know why your pH is where it is, and how best to change it.

I'd recommend not playing with the pH with chemical additives, because that yo-yo effect can send the fish into shock, and that is not so good. If the fish are happy at the pH of your water normally, don't stress If you do want to change it, there are ways of altering it with tank decor and filter media that are a lot less stressful on the fish, and yourself!

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks.

Post InfoPosted 16-Dec-2009 15:25Profile Homepage ICQ AIM MSN Yahoo PM Edit Delete Report 
zeketaz
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My ph was still 7.6 as of last night I have to test it again when I get home. There have been no changes.
Post InfoPosted 16-Dec-2009 16:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
brandeeno
 
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Avoid those pH regulators... they essentially screw up your water chemistry! Just let your fish adjust to what you have or use natural elements to regulate pH (driftwood, rocks, peat, and countless others). If you really want to alter it you should try doing it with something along those lines, it will help it to be more consistent rather than waves of change that can shock and/or kill your fish, plants and whatever else you have in there. As far as the slime I'd say its a strange byproduct and it could be an expired batch of the chemical (start checking expiration dates, you'd be surprised what stores will keep on their shelves) or just something wacky that resulted from the reaction with your water, if the slime stays maybe call the manufacturer hotline and ask what it is and if anyone else has had similar results (they might be able to help you with reversing the problem).


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Post InfoPosted 17-Dec-2009 03:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
lowlight
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The Ph in my 55gal is 7.5 to 7.6,the fish have no problem with it. I don't mess with it because it is stable. As stated above there is more to it then just adding a chemical. The only thing I add to my tank is dechlorinater when I do a water change. I add it to the bucket of tap water before I pour it in the tank. 7.6 is OK.
Post InfoPosted 17-Dec-2009 09:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
brandeeno
 
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Yeah try to limit the amounts of unnatural things you add to the tank... stick to conditioners(de-chlorinator)and ferts (if you have plants, but monitor these!)

Its easy to start pumping the tanks full of chemicals, and usually this is NOT good... it ends up screwing with the environment you have created for your aquatic pets, keep it as natural as possible...

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"
Post InfoPosted 17-Dec-2009 21:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
zeketaz
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My tank water is clear again it must have clouded up from the chemical I put in it. I tested water samples from my tap water and tank water and am wondering what the gh and kh results mean.

Tap water:

GH- 214.8+ ppm
KH- 17.9 ppm
PH- 8.0
Ammonia- 1
Nitrate- 10
Nitrite- 5

Tank water:

GH- 161.1 ppm
KH- 17.9 ppm
PH- 7.5
Ammonia- 0
Nitrate- 15
Nitrite- 0
Post InfoPosted 21-Dec-2009 17:33Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Hi,
First, I'm a bit concerned about your numbers, and also
wonder if you have the tap and tank values back wards.
I'm also curious about what you are using to test
the water and how you read the tests.

The numbers don't make much "sense." Generally speaking
when you have "liquid rock" for water as your GH indicates,
the other hardness value is not down in the "rain water"
soft area which is what your KH reading indicates.

The GH test measures the Calcium (Ca2+) and Magnesium (Mg2+)
ion concentrations. The KH test reveals the buffering
ability of the water by measuring the Carbonate (CO3) in
the water. Because the water flows through rock such as
Limestone or other carbonates, it picks up the ions and
becomes Hard Water as the calcium and magnesium is dissolved
by the water and becomes a part of it. I don't think I've
ever seen water with a 200 GH and a 17 KH.

Which brings me to wonder about the testing methods and kits
that you are using.
Are you using test strips, and/or might you be color blind?

When testing tap water, you should draw a clean glass of
water and leave it sit out (untouched by pets, or humans)
for 24 hours and allow it to degas. Then test it.

Test strips are notorious for giving false readings as they
are so easily contaminated by exposure to light, moisture,
heat, and aging. Check the expiration date on the bottle
as well.

IMO, the better test kits are liquids that are dropped,
drop by drop, into a test sample. The sample changes color
with each drop until it suddenly changes to a completely
different color, such as from orange to green.
Test kits are available at a huge range of prices, and
generally the more expensive are the best, but this kit
is one that most of us use:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4345+4454&pcatid=4454

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 21-Dec-2009 18:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
zeketaz
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I have the Api test kit. I however forgot to let the tapwater sit 24 hours before testing. I do have some sitting out but I dechlorinator in it and thought it would change the results. I did the tests one drop at a time like it said, but I will retest (water that's sat 24 hours) again and post the results then.
Post InfoPosted 21-Dec-2009 18:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
zeketaz
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Well Frank you were right about my numbers being way off. I somehow misread the instructions LOL. So anyways I tested the water I have setting out with the dechlorinator in it and also retested my tank water my results were as follows.

Tank water:
Gh- 143.2 ppm
Kh- 53.7 ppm

Tap water:
Gh- 214.8+ ppm
Kh- 107.4 ppm

Hopefully these numbers look more normal than the last ones.
Post InfoPosted 22-Dec-2009 00:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
keithgh
 
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I have been using a locally made PH adjuster for more years than I would like to remember.

Many years ago I discovered that the PH readings from the tap water varied a lot from week to week and definitely over the summer/holiday periods. Being in a huge holiday resort many of the supply lines are not used very much then all of a sudden they are cleaned out by the supply company. Some times they just open the street valves put a very fine filter over the outlet and check exactly what is in the lines usually dirt and rust or they just add more chemicals to kill the nasties in the water.

If I did not use a Ph adjuster it would be impossible for me to have any fish at all.

For my drinking and cooking water it all goes through a twin filter system, Even then I have to boil bit for drinking.

Keith



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Post InfoPosted 22-Dec-2009 01:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
zeketaz
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My tap ph varies between 8.0-8.4 which isn't to bad, and my tank ph is in the 7s. That regulator I tried didn't work at all. I have a 45 gallon tank and I used a teaspoon of the stuff and it never dissolved. It has made a total mess of my tank it looks like it snowed. I think I'm going to get a real piece of driftwood and get rid of my plastic log, it is driftwood that lowers ph right?
Post InfoPosted 22-Dec-2009 01:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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EditedEdited 22-Dec-2009 13:19
Hi
Yup, those numbers are much more in line with what
should be showing.
It's odd that the water treatment plant is delivering
water that hard. As hard as it is, that can lead to
the calcium and magnesium settling out and lining the pipes.
That gives you the effect of cholesterol in blood vessels
the deposits simply get thicker and thicker and it takes
longer and longer to fill a tub for instance. Usually the
treatment plant will lower the pH to 7 for delivery into
homes. But, it is what it is.

With that water its a shame you don't want to keep the
African Rift fish, and live bearers, or goldfish, that
water is delivered, ready made, just for them, to your
home.

Driftwood does release tannic acid into the water, coloring
it from yellow to a tea color. But, it will not last.
Over time all the tannic acid leaches out of the wood.
Also, it would take a lot of wood to make a dent in that
tank.

You might be better off, long term, in purchasing a RO
unit as an attachment to the sink faucet and using RO water
to "dilute" your tank water. Distilled water will also
work. To establish a ratio of how much RO or DI water to
add, take a gallon container of some sort, and fill it from
the tap. Then replace the water with either DI or RO water
say two cups at a time, until the pH is where you want it
for the fish you have. Once you know that it takes, say
a half gallon for every gallon, you can figure that if you
change out 10 gallons during a water change, then you
should replace that 10 gallons with 5 tap and 5 RO.
That is the initial setup. Once the tank is staying around
7.0 or whatever, you will need to do it ratio thing again.

RO or DI water should not be used full strength. By that
I mean, you should not fill your 30G tank with 30G of
RO or DI water. RO water will be water that has been
stripped of most, if not all, of the larger molecules of
minerals. DI water has absolutely NO minerals, and the
fish need the minerals for good health. Just like we
humans need Calcium and other minerals, that we get from
foods the fish need the same thing.

With the RO filter, and as hard as that water is, you will
need to regularly replace the membrane that filter the
water, but that should be your only ongoing expense
once you have purchased the unit.

Frank

I went back and reread my post and discovered the forum
is no longer converting abbreviations to explanations.
RO means Reverse Osmosis water. It is water that has been
passed through a filter membrane that traps the heavier
minerals (larger molecules) and demineralizes it.
DI water is distilled water, and it has been boiled, the
steam trapped, and cooled and collected. DI water is
completely devoid of any impurities.

http://www.water-research.net/hardness.htm

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Post InfoPosted 22-Dec-2009 13:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
zeketaz
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Frank i would so love to get some chiclids, but i want a bigger tank for them, i think theyd be to close together in the one i have now. For some reason I really don't like goldfish, and although I have 3 guppies livebearers multiply to much for me. LOL

So my GH is to high? I guess that would explain why my poor fish keep dying. Ok so Frank, or anyone else, in order to get the fish I would like what Gh and Kh readings should I have? Don't worry I won't be fiddling with any chemicals or anything. I have 2 other water sources I want to test.


Post InfoPosted 22-Dec-2009 13:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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EditedEdited 23-Dec-2009 14:44
Hi,
One has to speak in generalities when it comes to answering
the question what pH is good for... or what GH is good for
...

A pH value of 7.5 is ideal for most live bearers, Tetras
are generally great around 6.8-7.2 or so.
A GH of 0-50ppm is good for tetras, discus, neons,
cardinals, etc.
50-100 angelfish, cichlids, tetras etc.
100-200 tropical fish such as swordtails guppies, mollies
200-400 Rift lake Cichlids and brackish water fish.

The thing is that most of our fish found in the LFS are
raised in ponds stateside and that water's value is not
the ideal of the wild caught.

The main thing is to for the values to be stable.

Frank

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Post InfoPosted 22-Dec-2009 15:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
keithgh
 
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Frank

I remember many years ago up the hill a little bit from the school where I was teaching at was the local water storage and pumping station.

They had a small cement mixer going for several weeks and they were putting lime powder into the local water supply. Just think what that would be doing to the water parameters.

Keith

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Post InfoPosted 23-Dec-2009 04:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
zeketaz
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What would cause my nitrate to rise? It has gone up to 20 and altho my tank has plants it's high.
Post InfoPosted 23-Dec-2009 23:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
hca
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Nitrate at 20 isnt bad... if you have live plants you'll want nitrate around 10-20ppm's... To control nitrate levels- do normal water changes,

Nitrate is caused by the cycle. ammonia converts to nitrite, then that converts to nitrate... nitrate isnt harmful in small quantities like the others are.
Post InfoPosted 24-Dec-2009 00:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Hi,
Nitrate is the end product of the Nitrogen Cycle.
http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html

Planted tanks should run a nitrate reading between a 10
to a 20. Non planted tanks should be kept around 0-10.
Tanks with a reading from "around" 30-40 (depending upon
whose articles one reads) are indicative of needing
maintenance.

The way to regulate the nitrate levels within the tank
is to perform regular tank maintenance. Water changes
accompanied with vacuuming the tank gravel, right down
to the glass bottom, and the use of plants. All plants
use the nitrate, and some are known as "Nitrate Sponges."
As the plants grow they take the nitrate out of solution.

When cleaning the gravel with the water changes, you should
mentally section off the tank into four sections and with
each weekly water change, vacuum a different section.
That way, after a month the tank water is changed, and the
open areas of the gravel bed have been cleaned.

If one ignores tank maintenance, or is lax, or does not
clean the gravel bed, then over time, the pH will slowly
drop the nitrate readings will climb, and then suddenly,
the pH will plummet. The cause of the dropping pH is the
accumulation of organic acids in the water.
This sequence of events is called Old Tank Syndrome (OTS).
http://www.bestfish.com/oldtank.html

There is also a New Tank Syndrome as well...
http://www.bestfish.com/breakin.html

Hope this helps...
Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 24-Dec-2009 15:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Callatya
 
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Do check your tap water nirate reading too, there are times that mine comes out of the tap at 20ppm, so it isn't about to get any lower with water changes unless I manage to get rainwater or bottled water.

I tend to find more fish handle up to 40ppm without showing any problems, but it is a case of the lower the better

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks.

Post InfoPosted 25-Dec-2009 05:56Profile Homepage ICQ AIM MSN Yahoo PM Edit Delete Report 
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