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Hi, after taking 50% of my well water and 50% of my RO water (the RO water was treated with PH Stable to get a KH value of 4), and having them airate & kept at 78 degrees I got the following results:

PH = 7.9
KH = 3
GH = I need help here, with the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test I got a reading of five (5). I just got in my NEW Pinpoint Conductivity Monitor. After calibrating it I used it on this water and I am not sure of the results (sounds stupid!). The reading if 714 microSiemens.
33 microSiemens = 1dh. That would mean the reading of 21.63!!! Then I thought maybe it should be 71.4 but that would mean the GH is 2.163. Much different from the other test.
Can anyone help me with this.

I have never added chemicals to any of my tanks. I do use Peat in my German Blue Ram / Cardinal tank. All my tanks have plants. Some more than others.

My 120 gallon tank has many plants with Florite gravel. It is a heavily populated tank with 70 fish. It has been running for 3 years. The fish include many small fish, e.g. Tetras, dwarf Rainbows. Cherry Barbs, Ottos, Dwarf Gouramis but it also has some larger fish e.g. Clown Loaches, Pearl Gouramis, a Snakeskin Gourami, SAE's, Weather Loaches and a Bristlenose.

My 40 gallon tank has just a few plants with Eco-complete gravel. I wanted it to be heavily planted but the plants never did well so I have given up on plants for now. The tank is filled with Corys, 23 of them, 20 Neons, 12 Black Neons, a Crowntail Betta, a couple of Ottos and 4 SAE's.

I have my Ram/Cardinal tank with a lot of plants and regular gravel and I have a 20 gallon Long grow-out tank for fry (Kribs right now) with no plants

I also have a 30 gallon tank with two Java fern's. I had more plants but the Rosy Barbs destoyed them. It has regular ugly green gravel which I want to change. The tank was set up to house a large CAE that started to get aggressive in my 120. He is doing well in there and I also have 5 Giant Danios and my first borm male Krib. This tank is doing very well, just the gravel is ugly lol.

All my tanks are over filtered, at least two filters on each tank (including my 20's) and each filter is capable of filtering it's tank alone.

As far a ornaments, I buy only rocks from my LFS that are labeled to not effect my water. I always asked about the rocks to be safe. No other ornaments other than real rocks, real plants & driftwood. I have driftwood in every tank.

I really want to do CO2 on my 120, 40 & 20 (ram tank). I am considering automatic systems for my 120 & 40, cost of about $400.00 for each tank. This way it will turn off at spicific PH levels on its own.

I was thinking of just adding whatever to bring my KH up and GH to proper levels and letting the CO2 control the PH but I don't know if this would work and how safe it would be for my fish?

Thanks for all your help, sorry this is soo long.

Michael



Last edited by spyder at 29-Jan-2005 07:33

Spyder,

A couple of questions. Have you stopped adding chemicals to your tanks? What do you have in terms of substrates, hardscapes and plants in your tanks?

If you don't add things to your water and you have inert materials in your tanks. Your conductivity, pH and hardness should be the same as your replacement water. The parameters will change as the water ages in your tank do the your fish and possibly plants.



__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

Okay, I finally tested my Well Water, RO Water and the water I've been using for my tanks for the past 3 years, water from work. I am confused (as usual) by the results. Hear is what I have and I think I am going to retest. This water was set up 3 days ago but with our resent snow storm I got delayed getting the results until now so the water is aged a little longer than expected but I would think that this is a good thing.

RO Water - PH 6.5 - Conductivity 130 (I think this is high!)

Well Water from the tank - PH 7.4 - Conductivity 952

Water from work (city water) this is the water I've been using, I didn't check the PH but the tanks run around 7.0 - Conductivity 180.

What I find weird is that I checked my five tanks at home, all tanks are filled with water from work and the Conductivity readings ranged from 450 to 550. My Blue Rams tank is the highest! Weird, why would I get a reading of 180 with new water but 450 - 550 in all the tanks??? I do weekly 20% water changes, don't understand.


Last edited by spyder at 26-Jan-2005 07:41

That is what I am hoping for.
On Saturday I will be airating and heating my Well Water out of the tap, my Well Water through my RO unit and the water that I transport home from work. On Sunday I will post the values of PH, GH, KH and from my conductivity meter on each body of water. Hopefully this will give you some ideas as to how I can correct the water to allow my to keep the water soft but buffered enough to allow me to use CO2.

Thanks for all your help, this has been very educational & entertaining thus far. I won't say that if all this results in nothing, but I am learning a lot!

I admire your persistence in packing home water. What is your well parameters? Sometimes it can provide a great counterbalance to conditiooned water.

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

I was planning of checking all that, I want to airate and heat the water also, so it will take a bit to get those #'s. I did take the water I mixed and put it into the normal water I use for a water change. I mixed it at a rate of 20% and the meter measured in the high 300's. Don't remember the exact reading, I have too many #'s in my head right now. Please note that the water I normally use for water changes is not from my well, I bring it home from work and it is normally a ph of 7.0, GH of 6 and a KH of 2.

Mmm, what is the conductivity of your tap water, your RO water and the mix of RO with chemicals?

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

Yes I did

All the values seem to follow what you expected with the exception of the conductivity. My first question would be, "Did you calibrate the meter?"

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

Hi all, I got a new RO unit and I am having some trouble with getting the water parameters the way I want.

After the water goes through the RO unit I have a ph of 7.0 and 0 GH & KH.

I am working with 4 gallons of water.

I then add RO Right, 1 1/2 tpn. I get a reading of 0. I add another 1 1/2 tsp, still get a reading of 0. I add another 1 1/2 tsp, still getting a reading of 0. After reading through the instructions I noticed that readings with the liquid test kit are no good with this product.

So, I start over, new fresh water, add RO Right of 1 1/2 tsp, left it at that.
Added PH Stable, 1/4 tsp gives me a reading of 4 on the KH test. I felt that was good. PH was now at 7.8

Added PH Control Minus, 1/8 tsp. brought PH down to 6.8, great. I retested the KH, that now read 0???? Confusion. I added another 1/4 tsp of PH Stable, KH came back up to 3 but PH went back up to 7.8. Added another 1/8 tsp of PH Control Minus, PH came down but KH went to 0 again.

What am I doing wrong, seems to be a see-saw effect.

Let me say that I did all this over a 48 hour time span, giving each dosage many hours to settle.

Please help!

I'd hate to ruin the party but I have kept blue rams and cardinals in similar conditions to your original well water. They were very happy and healthy in those conditions, and I only changed it because I moved.

If it were my aquarium I would just go with the well water on its own. Once you start dosing CO2 you could expect the pH to decrease by as much as 1.0 anyway. Peat granules could be added to the filter to soften the water more gradually than dosing chemicals and using RO water. Peat would really be unnecessary, unless you are trying to breed the rams.

If you are adamant about using the RO water, I have to agree with Bob: you are far better to toss the additive products aside and simply buffer your RO water with tap water. Bob may have more patience to perform the necessary calculations, personally I just mix and test, trial and error until I find a mix that works for me.

To be honest, though, your well water is already going to be quite acidic and low in KH once you start adding CO2...it is probably best to not use the RO water at all. Just my 2 cents.

Experiment #1:

My Well Water - 4 gallons - Airated & Heated to 78 degrees for 24 hours:
PH = 7.6
KH = 2
GH = 8

RO Water (with NO RO Right) - 4 gallons - with 1/4 tsp of KENT PH Stable (Carbonic Acid Monosodium Salts) - Airated & Heated to 78 degrees for 24 hours:
PH = 8.0
KH = 4
GH = 0

I am thinking of doing a 50/50 mix with these waters, Airating and heating for 24 hours and seeing what I get. Hopefully a PH between 7.6 & 7.8 with a KH of 3 or 4 and a GH of 4.

Any thoughts????

Thanks

You will need to buffer your water by increasing your carbonate or KH particularly if you inject CO2. CO2 will drive your pH down and if you have a low KH you can experience a pH crash in your aquaria. Prior to starting CO2 I would aim for at least a measure of 4.5 dH or about 77 to 81 ppm. To raise the KH without raising the GH, add sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3), commonly known as baking soda. 1/2 teaspoon per 100 Liters raises the KH by about 1 dH. Sodium bicarbonate drives the pH towards an equilibrium value of 8.2.

Of course if your tap water has calcium as you stated in your post, you may want to blend your RO and your tap water to get the amount of buffer that you want. You could then let your lfs know that you will no longer be contributing to their retirement plan by buying water additives.

GH, KH and pH form the Bermuda's Triangle of water chemistry. Although the three properties are distinct, they all interact with each other to varying degrees, making it difficult to adjust one without impacting the other. I am looking forward to see your tap water valuesboth directly from the tap and after 24 hours of aeration.

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

A few #'s that may help.

My 20 gallon Long has some live plants and is home to 1 male & 2 female German Blue Rams and 12 Cardinal Tetras. The tank has been running for 2 years but these perticular fish have been in it for 4 months. The temp is 81 and I messured the GH @ 6 and the KH turned to it's end color on the first drop so it that 1 or 0? The PH is 7.2 and I have been using peat in the filter for the last couple of months. There are 2 pieces of bogwood in the tank.

My 120 gallon community has 70 fish ranging from Clown Loaches, Tetras, Guaramis (Pearls, Dwarfs & a Snakeskin), Dwarf Rainbows, Cherry Barbs, a Bristlenose, Weather Loaches, SAE's & Ottos.
The tank has been running for 4 years and the temp is 76. The GH is 6 and the KG is 1 or 0, same as the 20 gallon. The PH is 6.7.

Today I took some of my well water and I am airating it and heating it overnight. Tomorrow I will post the #'s.
I don't use my well water for my tanks because the is very high in calcium and it came out of the tap at 6.0 and turned to 7.8 once heated and airated. I bring city water (60 gallons a week) home for water changes but the city water has a KH of only 2, not enough to use CO2.

My goals are to add CO2 to 3 of my 6 tanks. Also, all of my fish like softer water so I want to keep it on the soft side but buffered enough for the CO2. I am also tired of transporting water so I want to use my well water with the RO unit, either mixing or just RO. Whatever will work.

Thanks for any help supplied

Michael

Last edited by spyder at 17-Jan-2005 13:41

Should I be using PH Stable, it is used to add KH? The RO Right adds GH.

Don't use the PH Control minus! The fish that you are describing really are looking for clean, soft water they will do fine in any pH as long as the GH is low.

Most people confuse acidity, alkilinity, softness and hardness when they talk about water. There is a linkage between pH and softness but it is often better ignored.

"Soft" water is devoid of minerals with a GH and KH of 0. At that measure, it is not suitable for fish. It is also extremely unstable as it has no buffering ability as measured by the KH. T%his is what your RO unit is producing for you.

RO Right adds back minerals to your water just like mixing in tap water will do for you! PH Plus minus adds back minerals to your water but in reaction to RO Right! Put them both away...

Now, test your tap water from the tap for pH, GH and KH. Record the values. Place your sample aside with aeration and heat for one day, then retest the samp[le. The valuesthat you should see on the retest are the values from de-gasification and heating of your tap water.

Use the second set of values as your base for mixing RO and tap water for water changes.

I have discus that are supposedly sensitive to hard water and pH. I use tap water for my water changes. I only use RO and pH adjustment with RO using peat as a conditioner for breeding. My GH is 3, my KH is 7, my PH is 7.6 and the rams in my discus tank are guarding eggs.

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

I have two different end results I am looking for:
One is for a tank that holds German Blue Rams and Cardinals, obviousely I want soft acidic water but I want it buffered enough so that I can add CO2.
Second is for all my other tanks, slightly acidic and buffered enough to add CO2.
I ordered a PinPoint Conductivity Monitor witch I should have by the end of the week.
If I add the bufferes, get the amounts I want, then add the PH Control Minus, can I assume that the buffers are still there even if I don't have the readings or is the PH Control Minus removing those buffers???

Spyder,

You are getting great results from your RO, pure water. The next question is, "What do you want your aquarium to be?" When you have decided the end parameters, say 1 dh GH and 3 dh KH, experiment with tap water and "RO Right" to determine the results. Remember that "aged" water, that 8is water that has been aerated and heated overnight has different test results than water mixed from the tap.

So, I would do a test solution from aged water and one with tap water for several occurences and find the result commonality.

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright