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YAY!!! I GOT MY 50!!! *does a little dance* (...srry, had to get that out). So, I have nothing yet, no filter heater airstones, etc. But the point is that I am debating whether to use a fishless cycle or a normal one. The fishless cycles seem to take less time (wich is a plus, since I'm keen on getting my angel in), but I've read that it can cause PH changes. Is this something that is very hard to correct? And I also read an article about how plants will absorb some of the ammonia, but is it still possible to put them in while doing the cycle? And how exactly do I do a fishless cycle. I know you add pure ammonia, and let it do its thing, but how much and what kind of ammonia should I put in? And would I have to put several fish in at once (my angel is only about nickle sized, but I will also put an african butterfly in from another tank).
Sorry, I have alot of questions, but all the time that I've been waiting for the tank, the questions have been growing...lol. Thanks for your help!/:'

I've never heard of a fishless cycle causing ph problems. The water would have to be too soft to be stable in the first place and then you'd have to add too much ammonia. If your ph drops during a fishless cycle it's going to do the same if you added fish.
You'll need plain ammonia with no surfactants or colors. The ingrediants should only include ammonia and possibly chelating agents. When you shake the bottle it shouldn't foam and the ammonia should not be colored. Sometimes they like to dye it blue.
One important thing to know when doing a fishless cycle is too much ammonia or nitrites will stop the cycle. Somewhere around 8ppm ammonia will stop the bacteria from multipying. If your tank reaches 8ppm wait a day and see if it will go down. If it stays the same do a 25% water change and wait another day before you start adding ammonia again.
To get started add enough ammonia to get to 5-6ppm on an ammonia test kit. Remember the amount you added. Wait a few days then test it again. If it doesn't change test every other day or every few days until it does. Once the ammonia is down to 1ppm or less add the same amount you did the first time. Add that amount every day and test the water until you test the ammonia at 0ppm for several days in a row. Your tank is now mostly cycled.
Now test nitrites and nitrates. If you have nitrites off the chart do a 25% water change and test the next day. Keep adding ammonia until your tank is cycled and your ready to add fish or the bacteria will starve. When nitrites and ammonia test zero for several days do a large water change to bring nitrates below 20ppm and add fish.
Do not add fish while adding ammonia. The point of a fishless cycle is the ability to keep the ammonia higher than if the tank had fish. It also avoids putting stress on fish that would be used for cycling.

Wow....thanks alot! That really answers alot of my questions. The problem is, I've read many conflicting reports of fishless cycling, and I wanted to hear from the experts here
I just have one more question: Can I build up my full array of plants while cycling? Or will it affect the ammonia levels?

Can I build up my full array of plants while cycling?

Yes, you can. That's what I did when I fishless cycled my 15g last month. Good luck!

-P

Fishless cycling can be a bit tricky. Do you just want to add all the fish at once or something forces you to like buying fish online. If you can I would say to use a regular cycle with some zebra danios. In my 125g fishless cycling never went any quicker than any regualr cycle.

I would just use a regular cycle with giant dianos, that always worked for me, sometimes in three weeks.

Really? From what I've read, the fishless cycle time is anywhere from 1wk-3 (It took my 10g a month to cycle, and since I knew nothing about fish then, it all went wrong.)
Green monkey: No, I don't have to get all the fish in at once, Its just thatI'm just trying to find the most "fool-proof" method, and I'd rather not take any fish back to the LFS. My angel and butterfly do have to go in soon, though, and I like the fact that the tank would be cycled with the a large colony of bacteria from the beggining, and my fish won't be stressed.I would seed the filter in my 10g, but it has a serious green water problem that will NOT go away, and I don't want to risk this tank having any problems!!
Thats great that I can put all the plants in. I may build it up over a two week period, though.....my parents don't want me spending too much money on the tank at once
Thanks for the help!

Last edited by fairynr at 26-Jul-2005 07:32

Last edited by fairynr at 26-Jul-2005 07:37

A fishless cycle can cause a pH spike if your water is low in alkalinity to begin with. But if that's the case, it's easy enough to remedy by adding a buffer.

And I second what Sham said about nitrates -- check them before you put the fish in, because they can be extremely high with a fishless cycle, meaning that you'd need to do a water change.

Last edited by lmuha at 26-Jul-2005 07:58

I would just do regular cycle with some danios then. Its the most fool-proof way. Also the nitrates can be hell getting down after the cycle is done with fishless. I know it took me 4 days of 2 40% water changes to get them to acceptable levels.

Last edited by greenmonkey51 at 26-Jul-2005 08:00

Well....can I cycle a tank with a fish that is ...slower? The danios are so darn hard to catch, and I don't like spending an hour with my arms in the tank Are the giant danios slower? Maybe I should do a fish cycle....I'm so confused:#(

Any fish is going to be fast if your coming after it with a net. It shouldn't be hard catching them in a 55g. use 2 big nets and it should be easy. Or get a peice of plexiglass and make a simple divider and herd them to one side and then put the divider in.

Yea just get a large net, their like 3-5 bucks, and the giant dianos are like 1$ a peice, get 8 of them.

I hated having to find something to do with the danios afterward. They kept messing up my tetra school and I really dislike danios. The store wouldn't take them back. Eventually they ended up in my horses stock tank outside and got killed one day when my grandpa refilled the tank with 55F well water on a 90F day. No more danios ever again for me. Cycling with danios took me around 4weeks. Fishless cycling my past 3 tanks has taken 2-3weeks and I've had no problems. The only thing that slowed down my first fishless cycle was letting the ammonia and nitrites build to the point the bacteria couldn't multiply anymore. Really I don't know what's so unpredictable about a fishless cycle. You control everything. There's no overfeeding, underfeeding, using too many fish, too few fish, having fish die, or needing to do water changes cause the levels got high enough to kill the fish. Plus I don't like putting the fish through stress and the damage of high ammonia and nitrites when I don't have to. They are living creatures.

Sham does have a point (my mother was willing to let me use her three head-tail lights and two danios to cycle, so I wouldn't have to buy some for cycling, but I don't want her fish to die from the stress of going froma fully cycled tank to one that isn't.) I rather not kill fish to acomplish my goals, and although many use a fish cycle, I feel slightly better about the fishless cycle. And I DO like the fact that everything about a fishless cycle is all im MY hands (this tank better not have any problems]:|)lol.
I don't even know if my LFS would take back the fish, and I really don't like danios (I would not like them mixing in with my diamond tetras, angels fish, and pearl gouramis...)
Everyone has very good points, and Its going to be hard to choose (lol...I change my mind alot)Most of me is still leaning to the fishless cycle, though
Thanks again everyone, you've all given me alot of insight.

Fishless cycling is for FISH tanks NOT planted tanks and is a really outdated fad if you ask me. If you're going to be planting it, you'd be much better cycling it the normal way. IE. You plant the tank really heavily with fast growing plants, start with just a few fish, and go from there. If you use this method properly you shouldn't see the traditional ammonia and nitrite spikes that you would in a fish tank.

Dosing NH4 in a planted tank will inevitably lead to nasty algae blooms and a bad experience for you. Plants "prefer" NO3 to NH4 but algae doesn't care, and in fishless cycling you end up dosing way more ammonia than your plants would likely use anyway. They will, however, keep up with the ammonia naturally produced by a few fish when you're starting your tank.

For more info read these articles:

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_newtank.htm

http://www.rexgrigg.com/cycle.htm

You can "seed" your tank with established filter media from another tank, mulm from the substrate in another tank, gravel, etc. I have used this method personally and haven't looked back since. Fishless cycling is a pain in the rear, too fussy and as I already mentioned, it's for fish tanks. Not applicable if you're going planted.

Really? From what I've read, the fishless cycle time is anywhere from 1wk-3

Sorry, I have to disagree here, your cycle isn't going to go any faster just because you're adding ammonia artificially. The method cited above is essentially a way to almost bypass the cycle. It's completely fool proof as long as you take the time to set it up properly.

Last edited by trystianity at 27-Jul-2005 04:04

Well...hm, have to think about that option. I DO want a very heavily planted tank, and this way I can do that and have the tank "cycled". But my only problem is the fact that my lighting is under 1wpg. I will add a co2 product, but I'm not sure if The plants will have enough. I should probably add some fertilizer, then? I've never used any, so I'm not clear on what I have to do...
I probably shouldn't add ammonia and do a traditional "fishless" cycle, So I'll try that planted tank cycle. It's a little confusing, but I think it'll work.