AquaRank.com

FishProfiles.com Message Forums

faq | etiquette | register | my account | search | mailbox
# FishProfiles.com Message Forums
L# Freshwater Aquaria
 L# Water Quality
  L# Really confused!!!
 Post Reply  New Topic
SubscribeReally confused!!!
Pristellapower
*****
-----
Fingerling
Posts: 48
Kudos: 39
Votes: 0
Registered: 01-Nov-2005
male usa
Ok I am really confused here. I have had a semi-planted 29 gallon tank running for 2 months with a few cories and some danios. The water quality has not changed since the first water change. I have the cories still(only 1 has died) but all but 1 danio has died. My readings are Ammonia 1.0,Nitrite is either 1.0 or 5.0 it's hard to tell the colors apart but either way it's high, and Nitrate is 5.0. I have tried using cycle,and have tried water changes,but the reading are always the same. I don't know what else to do.Any advice?
Post InfoPosted 13-May-2009 02:49Profile PM Edit Report 
Babelfish
 
**********
---------------
---------------
---------------
Administrator
Small Fry with Ketchup
Posts: 6833
Kudos: 8324
Votes: 1570
Registered: 17-Apr-2003
female australia us-maryland
Was this first water change after the tank had fully cycled? Ammonia rise and fall, nitrIte rise and fall, nitrAtes present all others zero?

Have you tested your tap water for ammonia?

Have you tried using different test kits?

^_^

Post InfoPosted 13-May-2009 03:46Profile Homepage AIM MSN PM Edit Delete Report 
Pristellapower
*****
-----
Fingerling
Posts: 48
Kudos: 39
Votes: 0
Registered: 01-Nov-2005
male usa
Nothing has ever been zero in this tank. I have had many tanks and have never had this problem. I did test the tap and there was a slight reading of ammonia,which is bad. I have 2 different kinds of tests and they both read roughly the same thing.I do not plan on adding anything else to this tank right now even though I feel bad for the one danio. I really can't believe that the cories are living and active. Should I do another small water change? This is the first tank I have ever had that has given me problems with the cycle.
Post InfoPosted 13-May-2009 05:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
**********
---------------
---------------
Moderator
Posts: 5108
Kudos: 5263
Votes: 1690
Registered: 28-Dec-2002
male usa us-colorado
EditedEdited by FRANK
Hi,
Two months after setup with the zebras and Corrie's in the
tank, I'm finding it hard to believe that the tank has
not cycled. A tank that size with that many fish should
have been cycled after a month, if not before.

With the Corrie's being active and healthy, I'm even more
skeptical. Those are not hardy fish, and really should
have been the first to die off in the cycling process.

If you live in an area where there is a LFS, I suggest you
take a sample of water to them and ask them to test it.
You might also mention, at the same time what you values
you are obtaining with your test kits. Honestly, I find
those readings despite from two different kits, suspect.

Chances are your water conditioner is responsible for the
ammonia reading. Nearly all of them simply change the
ammonia molecule to a different form, making it non toxic
but still produce a reading. Water treated by the city
treatment plant with chloramine, and treated by you, with
a water conditioner, will produce an ammonia reading.
The container for the water conditioner should have a
caution on it to that effect so one does not panic when
they see an ammonia reading.

Are your test kit reagents within the active life span
of these chemicals. They grow "old" and with age loose
their ability to give accurate readings.
What kind of a test kit is it? Are they test strips?
If so, they are notorious for inaccurate readings, they
age easily, and contaminate readily, all of which ruins
their reliability. If you are using liquid reagents
and comparing them to a chart, they are probably out of
date. Oh, as foolish as it seems, be sure you are using
the correct color cards (for freshwater).

Have you found and removed all the dead fish? Elevated
ammonia and nitrite could be the result of a dead fish
or two hidden somewhere in the tank or filter.

What, and how much, are you feeding the fish? Again,
elevated readings can be the result of overfeeding, or
poor, or old, foods.

I would explore the above possibilities and at the same
time continue to perform 20% weekly water changes and
include gravel vacuuming with each water change. Since
you have a semi-planted tank, mentally divide the non
planted sections of the tank up into four sections and
with each weekly water change, vacuum a different section
of gravel. Also, waive your hand in the water over the
planted sections to swirl the water up and lift any loose
debris accumulated down among the plants up into the
water column where you can siphon it off.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 13-May-2009 08:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Pristellapower
*****
-----
Fingerling
Posts: 48
Kudos: 39
Votes: 0
Registered: 01-Nov-2005
male usa
I totally agree with everything you said,that is why I am confused. The cories look and are acting fine. Like I said I have only lost 1 cory and that was the day after they went into the tank.I started with glowlights only because my wife should up with glowlights and no tank to put them in except a 2.5 minibow.So we bought the setup and everything and only ran it 24 hours before putting them in. Of course they died. I figured Danios would be better so WE bought 5 of them.They lived for a month with the same readings I have now,and then started dying off. Replaced them and all but 1 has died off again.
As far as test kits I am using API and Red sea both liquid. I also have strips but they are hard to read. I am using aquasafe and flourish,Flourish Iron,and flourish excel with the plants. I guess all that chemicals could affect the reading.I'll do another water change and see what happens.
Post InfoPosted 13-May-2009 12:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Pristellapower
*****
-----
Fingerling
Posts: 48
Kudos: 39
Votes: 0
Registered: 01-Nov-2005
male usa
ok well I took samples to petland and petco and they both had the same readings I got. The manager at petland was just as confused as I am.And the girl at petco said it was probably "the chemicals reacting with each other". Both said that nnothing could live in those conditions. I'll do a water change and go from there.
Post InfoPosted 14-May-2009 02:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
**********
---------------
---------------
Moderator
Posts: 5108
Kudos: 5263
Votes: 1690
Registered: 28-Dec-2002
male usa us-colorado
Hi,
What product are you using to eliminate the chlorine
and chloramine in the tap water?
Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 14-May-2009 07:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Pristellapower
*****
-----
Fingerling
Posts: 48
Kudos: 39
Votes: 0
Registered: 01-Nov-2005
male usa
I am using aquasafe. Would it have any negative effect with the flourish products I am using? I have used the same combination on my last planted tank without any trouble. I am going to do a water change tonight. I feel bad for the danio,she looks lonely.
Post InfoPosted 14-May-2009 13:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
**********
---------------
---------------
Moderator
Posts: 5108
Kudos: 5263
Votes: 1690
Registered: 28-Dec-2002
male usa us-colorado
EditedEdited by FRANK
Hi,
The water conditioner says that it will not remove ammonia.
All it does is split the bond between chlorine and ammonia
(Chloramine) freeing the ammonia molecule. Your test for
ammonia, will "read" that freed molecule and "add" it to
any ammonia secreted by the fish. In a cycled tank, that
is called a "False Positive." That reading of ammonia
can drive folks nuts as they keep trying to get
the ammonia back to zero. After all, information tells
them that their ammonia reading must be zero as must
the nitrite reading before the tank is fully cycled.
There are two "types" of ammonia molecules (so to speak)
one is harmful to the fish and the other is not.
The one formed by breaking the chemical bonds of the
Chloramine is not harmful.

No, it should not interfere with the Sea-Chem products.

They are designed for two different things; Tetra Safe,
for water "Conditioning" for the fish, and the
Sea Chem products for the plants.

One caution, Excel is fine for providing "liquid Carbon"
however, for some plants there are a few, such as
Val's, that seem to wither and die off with its use.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 14-May-2009 16:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Pristellapower
*****
-----
Fingerling
Posts: 48
Kudos: 39
Votes: 0
Registered: 01-Nov-2005
male usa
So I should look past the ammonia reading and just worry about the nitrite? Also do I need use the excel? My anacharis is turning white and slowly falling apart. Could that maybe effect my nitrite levels? I doubt it. Anyway should I add a couple more danios since there is only one with the cories or should I wait?
Post InfoPosted 14-May-2009 17:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
**********
---------------
---------------
Moderator
Posts: 5108
Kudos: 5263
Votes: 1690
Registered: 28-Dec-2002
male usa us-colorado
Hi,
In this case, Yes, I'd look to the nitrite reading for that.
As long as it stays at zero, I would consider the ammonia
reading to be "incidental."

Anacharis, is a cold water plant. If the light is poor,
or the water temperature too warm it will whiten, fall
apart, and die. It does best in a goldfish tank with
no heater and a good light. In that case it will grow
into a jungle, and the goldfish will nibble on it as they
love it. In a "good" tank, the plant can grow fast enough
to keep up with the harvesting by the fish.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 14-May-2009 19:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
brandeeno
 
-----
Mega Fish
Posts: 925
Kudos: 631
Registered: 13-Sep-2007
male usa us-california
EditedEdited by brandeeno
ok my first assessment: you are adding way too many chemical to the tank. If the tank is only semi planted you only need to dose on of those ferts. as for the ammonia levels the decaying anacharis could potentially have a large cause to this.

stopp adding so many chemicals, stick to a few good ones and I would say get some of the ammonia removing crystals or rocks suck as "ammoblock" or whatever from the LFS, these should remove some of your excessive ammonia.

also i suggest you research and find a good tropical plant that will grow fast and actually use all of the nutrients such as a stem plant or hornwort.

do a good gravel vac twice a week too and add some MTS (Malaysian trumpet snails) to keep the food that falls into the substrate from rotting.

These are a few more approaches that you should consider and take advantage of the natural ways of fixing your problems (although the ammonia removing agents are not so natural they are for some aid at first).

It is probably most likely an issue with your tap water in conjunction with the tank, so take a tap sample to the LFS and ask them to test it. if its bad results, think about getting a reverse osmosis system or using bottled spring water from now on.

PS use only spring water and no others as it has trace minerals and etc, must be collected at the source and not excessively treated.

Good Luck,
-Brandon

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"
Post InfoPosted 18-May-2009 00:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Post Reply  New Topic
Jump to: 

The views expressed on this page are the implied opinions of their respective authors.
Under no circumstances do the comments on this page represent the opinions of the staff of FishProfiles.com.

FishProfiles.com Forums, version 11.0
Mazeguy Smilies