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OK now for the question that is killing me

The water supply in our area has been treated with chloramines instead of chlorine for the past several years.

when using the regular dechlorinators the result is that the chloramine bond is broken and the chlorine is removed ....this results in the releasing of toxic Ammonia (NH3) when using most ammonia treatments they are in essence detoxifying the (NH3) by causing another hydrogen atom to affix itself to the molecule and resulting in a non-toxic to fish ammonia(NH4)...nedless to say I do not want to add ammonia in any form into my tank...currently I am getting an ammonia reading that is off the scale with several test kits ..the fish are doing just fine. Any suggestions on how to remove the ammonia that is in the tap water?

sounds like either your test kits are off. or you have transgressed into mini-cycle.

interesting dilemma as i don't see how the fish could be fine in off-the-chart ammonia levels. the NH3 should be being converted into NO2 and NO3 by bacteria. I am not sure if ammonium (nh4) is picked up by ammonia test kits. but bacteria should still be able to break down the ammonium into no2.

NH4 does register on some NH3 tests, it is a false reading. The fish will show signs of toxicity if the toxic NH3 was present. There is a test that distinguishes between the two, I can't remember which one it was though. The biological filter should take care of both NH3 and NH4, and I think a double dose of Prime in the water bucket may help with it a bit as well. The only other thing I can think of is live plants, they eat it up, both forms, many recommend hornwort for that purpose.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

zarrar,

You are zman now, right?

Anyway, for some reason it took me quite a while to find this thread, but I find it very interesting.

I don't know where you got this Dechlorinator to Ammonia story from, but I am very surprised by it.

Most quality dechlorinators treat for chloramines and chlorine, just to be usefull for a broader market. Take Prime for example (and I have full faith in it). This is from the Drs Foster and Smith website:

-Tap water conditioner removes chlorine and chloramine
-Detoxifies ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, and heavy metals

Or how about Stress Coat, this is from the Aquarium Pharmaceutical website (makers of this product):

-Instantly removes chlorine and chloramines
-Will Stress Coat detoxify Ammonia? No. If you need to detoxify ammonia use Ammo-Lock 2.

So, if after using one of these products you get some Ammonia readings (and I use both until I am out of Stress Coat, then I will only use Prime) then something else must be going on. Or maybe I should start using that Ammonia Kit again .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi,
You are correct with your description of what happens.
When Chloramine is added at the water treatment plant
it kills off the bacteria that they are treating the water
for. And, when you add the dechlorinator that also
"removes" chloramine, it breaks the chemical bonds and
releases ammonia.

As far as your "fears" are concerned, the amount released
is negligible and easily handled by the bacterial colonies
in the tank and filter system. There will be a "false
reading" indicating an elevated ammonia value. It's called
false because it is not the true value for the established
tank, say 12 - 24 hours after the water change. It is,
instead, just a temporary spike that will go away in a
"few" hours.

If the water change is the normal 10-20% or even 50%, no
harm will come to the fish and the bacteria and plants
just get little bit extra to "eat" for a while.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

LITTLE_FISH yes I am he who was once called zarrar .. I needed to do something with my premium membership.
Ive read some stuff on seachems PRIME and it looks good as far as the sales pitch goes. As for Ammo-Lock it does in fact detoxify the ammonia ..but there should be a law about owning ammo-lock and a test kit together..it will lead to insanity.

Frank- I was trying to find a method to (de-ammoniafy DAF)maybe it will get into the glossary) my dechlorinated water prior to it entering my now cycleing tank. Ive tried agitation, aeration, boiling and even distillation and all of these have no effect on the ammonia in the water......actually I find that exposing the ammonia in the water to the nitrifying bacteria is the best way to get rid of the stuff.

Ammo-lock works at what it says it is going to do, it detoxifies the ammonia, I was getting readings of over 8ppm for ammonia and the fish, snails and frog were all just doing fine no gasping or any signs of stress....I on the other hand was flipping out of my skin.....I'm better now.

zman,

I am all confused, but it might just be me

Do I interpret this right that you say your tab water contains so much chlorine and/or chloramine that after using a dechlorinator and/or Ammon Lock you get 8ppm of Ammonia reading in your tank (false or not)?

I have never heard of that and it is really interesting. Sounds to me like you get your tab water straight from a public pool .

Now, do I see that right that the tank in which you made this observation is currently cycling? Wouldn't that be more likely the reason for the ammonia reading?

What is your water change routine on the tank with the 8ppm?

As I said, all confused

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The water supply in our area has been treated with chloramines instead of chlorine for the past several years.

when using the regular dechlorinators the result is that the chloramine bond is broken and the chlorine is removed ....this results in the releasing of toxic Ammonia (NH3) when using most ammonia treatments they are in essence detoxifying the (NH3) by causing another hydrogen atom to affix itself to the molecule and resulting in a non-toxic to fish ammonia(NH4)...nedless to say I do not want to add ammonia in any form into my tank...currently I am getting an ammonia reading that is off the scale with several test kits ..the fish are doing just fine. Any suggestions on how to remove the ammonia that is in the tap water?

The initial question was how to "remove" ammonia not detoxify it

OK.....my bad

my 55 gallon tank that was already established got some new additions (a bunch of fish) this increased the bio load sufficiently to cause an ammonia spike and a subsequent cycle.

(also lost the use of one of my bio wheel filters a 150 that had been running simultaneously with another biowheel 330)

I never had a situation that involved a lot of fish in a tank while the ammonia went above 1 ppm...so I started to freak.

I started on a quest to find a quick remedy...visited 6 different LFS all trying to sell a different chemical remedy it was at on shop that the owner enlightened me as to the use of chloramines in our water instead of chlorine...I started to test my treated tap water only to find that the conditioner upon eliminating the clorine releases the ammonia component of chloramine into the water. giving me .5 - 1 ppm of ammonia in the water that I plan to put into my aquarium.

no more confusion I hope

I now have less of a concern as the nytrifying bacteria will take care of the ammonia.
as Frank stated above

As far as your "fears" are concerned, the amount released
is negligible and easily handled by the bacterial colonies
in the tank and filter system. There will be a "false
reading" indicating an elevated ammonia value. It's called
false because it is not the true value for the established
tank, say 12 - 24 hours after the water change. It is,
instead, just a temporary spike that will go away in a
"few" hours.