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15 & 16/06/2004

Well things are going well.

Water parameters for 15/06/2004
Temp: 25C
pH: 7.4
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
GH: 20dGH
Water: Clear
finally the ammonis has hit 0ppm. A nice feeling.
Now to get the pH back up to 8

Water parameters for 16/06/2004

Temp: 25C
pH: 7.6
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
GH: 20dGH
Water: Clear

The pH is starting to rise, very slowly but going in the right direction.
Might be ready for fish in about a week if everything stays the way it is.
Still don't have a digital camera. Boo Hoo, Boo Hoo!

Congrats Macbeth...

I am sure you will enjoy your selection..

Please get a picture when you can. I would love to see your set-up..

01/07/2004
Well now that I have fish in my tank and the setup part is near enough complete, I will make this last entry and thank all those people who have followed the progress of this thread.
Now to go to the Cichlid Forum and start asking questions there.
As time goes on I'll see if I can borrow a camera and post a couple of shots. Should be in a week or so.

01/07/2004
I have 8 Electric Yellows!!!
They are a deep yellow, a bit like goldfish, others I have seen have been a washed out pale yellow or they had visible striping through the body, I am drawn to neither features.
I selected at least two obvious males and then tried to pick similar sized fish but lacking obvious black dorsal colouring. Time will tell how successful my selection process was.
The fish are around the 2-3 cm size, the two males being bigger and the possible female ones a little smaller. What will probably occur is as the smaller ones gow out they will develop the black colouring!
Gee I wish I had a camera!
Anyway they are swimming around in a pack and hiding amongst the darker rock and I am happy!

Water parameters
Temp: 25C
pH: 7.6
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
GH: 23dGH
Water: Clear

The GH is still climbing a bit.

30/06/2004
Nothing new today just a water test

water parameters:
Temp: 25C
pH: 7.6
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
GH: 23dGH
Water: Clear

The GH has gone up one but everything else looks fine. Still no EY's.

[span class="edited"][Edited by macbeth 2004-06-30 23:22][/span]

I'd like to say publically what I said thru a PM thanks Tammy.
Now down to what's been happening with this tank ove the last 5 days.
Firstly I've been away fishing for the last three days. Spent heaps to catch one fish in the wild and then took the daughter to a trout farm and spent $33 for 3 fish. Had to pay per kilo. Could've caught another ten fish at the farm for the price the one in the wild cost, but then again it's the thrill of being a 'hunter gatherer'. "Ug. Ug." I said to the wife when we got back with our catch. She laughed - not with me but AT ME! Oh the hassle of being a suburbanite.
Not all was hunting and gathering though, I found a really fantastic piece of wood to go into my other tank! Now to clean it up.

Back to the tank at hand.
Water parameters when I left (26/06/2004)
Temp: 25C
pH: 7.8
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
GH: 22dGH
Water: Clear


When I returned: 28/06/2004
Temp: 25C
pH: 7.6
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
GH: 22dGH
Water: Clear

The hassle I am having with the pH is that the readings I am getting are boarderline between my normal pH tester and the high pH tester. But the fact that it is between 7.6 and 7.8 is okay. As far a GH goes, I wish I could keep count.

I am going to get some fish in the next few days. Can't wait.

Macbeth...

I gotta give you credit. Watching your progress on this tank has been very interesting and almost enjoyable.

I raise Electric Yellows, great fish by the way, and I couldn't let the opportunity go by without telling you that I think once you have the fish you are looking for, they are going to be lucky that they found their way to your tank.

Good Luck and have a nice mini-vacation...

[span class="edited"][Edited by Tammy 2004-06-23 07:04][/span]

23/06/2004

Things still going good. Haven't found any Electric Yellows to buy as yet. Going away this weekend for 3 to 4 days so I won't be getting them before I leave.
Water parameters
Temp: 25C
pH: 7.8
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
GH: 21dGH
Water: Clear
The GH seems to be waivering between 21d and 22d, this could be due to miscounting of drops, my math isn't a strong point.
The BN's are eating the zuccini I put in there.
The top most rock seems to be developing a darker coloured brown algae, I'll keep watch on it.

22/06/2004

Took the Goldfish back yesterday as the two BN's should keep things moving as far as the cycle goes. Checked out three LFS for Electric Yellows, my usual LFS has some small EY's but the colour seems a bit washedout. He said he's getting more in. The other 2 stores, 1- nil EY's, the other had a really nice male about 4cm for $25 AUD- too expensive. I'll keep looking around until I find some with good colour.
Water parameters
Temp: 25C
pH: 7.8
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
GH: 22dGH
Water: Clear
pH has risen one notch, will watch it closely.

21/06/2004

It's amazing what a couple of BN plecos can do to a bit of algae!
A good 80% reduction in one night, not bad going at all. I'm leaving them in there now and would make a suggestion to all people that if your water parameters fit... use them.
VOTE ONE FOR BN PLECOS!!
Better keep the pH below 8 and keep them happy. Won't be adding any Bi Carb as a result.

20/06/2004

I have now left the checking of water parameters to every two days as things have settled down into a sort of static state.

Results
Temp: 25C
pH: 7.6
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
GH: 21dGH
Water: Clear

I still want the pH to go higher and will add some Bi carb soda at a rate of 1/2 a teaspoon every two days until I get to a pH of 8.
I have also noticed that the white rock is starting to get a light brown colour on the upper surface, possibly algae. I am putting in two of my BN plecos to see if that reduces it.
I will put off the Bi carb for a couple of days until the BN's are properly aclimatised before the pH rises.

18/06/2004
No change to parameters other than Gh going to 22d

Temp: 25C
pH: 7.6
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
GH: 22dGH
Water: Clear

Hi McBeth, sounds like all is going well, what we do for set up for Africans (cichlids) is, Tank add water, good quality dechlorinator/ager, Calcium carbonate (crushed coral) to buffer up pH,1 teaspoon of KH Generator/per 100lts of water and a good quality filter Eheim,Fluval to suit tank/ stock load. Add fish, rocks, decorations and leave for 3 days then add Amtrite Down on days 3,4,5 and then small water-change 10/14days. Have used this method for cichlids 2 tanks in one day and all fish still alive, one tank has had babies in 12 weeks all OK. Ciclids are tuff fish and can tolerate quite a wide range of water, try not to be so precise with your water. Best substrate for Africans is Calcium Carbonate, they love it, play with it, dig holes, shovel it around and make their own homes etc, gives them something else to do while your at work.
Try to make your fishkeeping easy and fun and don't fuss and fiddle with them. Sit back and enjoy, lifes to short.
Good luck. Muss

Hi all,
I'd like to chronicle my new setup proceedure.

About 27/05/2004 I had to get rid of my little school of Cardinals from my 33 gal tank. This wasn't by choice but as a result of NTD.
While I was in the netting mood I also netted all of the Bristlenose babies and Kribs to trade at my LFS. I removed the last 6 small Kribs and 17 small BN's and took them to my LFS.
This left only my breeding pair of Kribs and BN's in this tank, along with lots of Java Fern.
Now I really have wanted to diversify my tanks for some time and thought, what a great chance to do just that. Therefore I removed my breeding Kribs and BN's and put them into my big 4' tank, removed all of the Java Fern and took that to the LFS for trading, he loves the Java Fern since it sells like hot cakes and will take every bit I give him.

Now over the last 9 to 10 months I had built up a fair bit of credit and decided to transform my small community tank into a tank for Electric Yellows.
I decided on EY's because they are relatively easy to care for. The water parameters are not too far off what comes out of my tap, just need to get it harder and raise the pH from an average 7 to 7.5-7.8 range. Not too difficult since I have had some experience with fluctuating pH in my tanks and getting them back to a stable 7.

So I have started.

Firstly on 01/06/04, I stripped the tank to nothing, removed everything.
I purchased new fine grain 'midnight black' gravel, new white rock high in calcium and finally stained my tank stand. Hey I've had it for over 3 years, I think it was time to do it.
The white rock I had soaking for several days in a bleach solution and today removed it from the bleach and have started rinsing it firstly in hot water and now it's sitting in cold water, this it its third change of water. I will do water changes several more times and then leave it outside to air dry until I can detect no bleach smell.

Today the tank was thoroughly cleaned inside and out. I used clean cold water, a rag and a razor blade to scrape off some hard green algae and mineral build up in those hard to get to places.
The new gravel has been thoroughly rinsed until no more murky water came away.

I have now reassembled the basic parts of my tank. The stand, tank and gravel are now back together.
I have put a black plastic backing on the rear of the tank using a method I read about on FP. I can't remember who suggested it but it was some time ago.
I used some Olive oil spray on the back glass and then slid the backing over it. Using a hard edged magazine spine I removed all of the air bubbles, squeagy style from the middle out to the edges. Now if I had a digital camera I'd post a photo of it in this naked state, but alas no camera therefore no photo. I'll see if I can borrow one as things progress.
There's not much more I can do now, I want to place the rock into the tank before I fill it so I can 'sculpt' with my magnificent artistic talent the rock with minimal hassle... well I wish I had magnificent artistic talent. We can dream can't we, nothing wrong with that.
If anyone has any suggestions on things to do or consider in the meantime, leave a post.




[span class="edited"][Edited by macbeth 2004-06-06 01:15][/span]

[span class="edited"][Edited by macbeth 2004-06-10 01:49][/span]

14/06/2004
The 4 goldfish look healthy and have settled in well by all accounts. The temperature is now on 25C and I'm not touching it again. LOL
Checked pH with both pH testers as 7.4 is the lowest on the high pH chart.
Ammonia still dropping slowly.
Got to get a digital camera to post a couple of shots.
Thanks Frank for your input.

Water parameters:

Temp: 25C
pH: 7.4
Ammonia: less than 1ppm but more than .5ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
GH: 20dGH
Water: Clear

Hi,
I would urge you to leave the oyster shells in
the filter. See how high it will climb. 8.2 pH
is still well within the range for the Rifts
that you are going to keep.
Taking them in, and out, is swinging the pH too
much, too fast, for fish to adapt to. It leads
to stressing the fish, and killing them.

Geologists test for carbonates with dilute HCl.
Not many have that at home. H2SO4 (battery
acid) would also work. The thing is, that stuff
can be dangerous and today, the stuff is not
all that readily available. Ordinary vinegar
white (cause it's cheaper) is fine for testing
most carbonates. Take a knife or hammer and
either scratch the surface, or smack it with
a hammer and get a fresh surface, then drip some
vinegar on the newly exposed surface. If it is
a carbonate, then it will fizz (hence the name
"fizz test". Some carbonates are so tightly
bound (chemically) that the acidic acid in the
vinegar will not react. That is why stronger
acids are used some times.

If the limestone barely fizzes or does not
at all, then it will have very little effect
on the water chemistry.

I agree with your LFS about using a couple of
gold fish, especially if he will take them back
towards the new fish.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

13/06/2004
Well my pH had another fall to 7.4 so I'm putting back the sock of shell grit. My GH is still rising, slowly, but still going up to 20dGH.
Nice to see the ammonia has fallen to 1ppm, wondering whether to add some fish?
I'll take some water samples to my LFS and get them tested for nitrAtes since my test kit doesn't have that test.
I did get a PM from Frank who asked about the rock, I believe it to be some sort of limestone and did the vinegar test as advised... no fizzing. Is there a particular type of vinegar to use? I used plain white vinegar. I'll confirm the rock type with my LFS.

Water parameters

Temp: 22C
pH: 7.4
Ammonia: 1ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
GH: 20dGH
Water: Clear

1130hrs

Back from my LFS... rock is a limstone based rock, doesn't have a test for NitrAtes at the shop. Had a conversation about what I'm doing and was not impressed re adding ammonia to a tank to aid cycling, he suggested that a couple of goldfish would be a 'safer' way. I told him the water parameters re ammonia and pH and took his advice and added 4 small plain goldfish.

Re pH falling he agreed that the shell grit is the main factor... replace same was his advice which I had done before going to LFS...
Putting the shell grit inside the filter and having lots of water passing over it rapidly increases pH changes. After getting back to 8.2pH I'll remove it and place it inside the tank and see what fluctuations occur.
Re temp: increase temperature to about 25C. Well I'm trying but the heater is a bit temperamental (no pun intended).

[span class="edited"][Edited by macbeth 2004-06-12 20:43][/span]

12/06/2004
Added 13ml more amtrite down last night just to give the ammonia cycle a kick along and get it back to 0ppm and also removed the shell grit from my filter as the GH is about right and really don't want it getting too high.
This morning these are the water parameters

Temp: 22C
pH: 7.8
Ammonia: 2ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
GH: 19dGH
Water: Clear

Now as we can see the pH has dropped betwlow 8 and the temp is also down.
The question I have is, is there a connection between the two?

11/06/2004 1150hrs

Not much to say just did a water test. Getting a thermometer now.

Temp: 25C
pH: 8.0
Ammonia: 2ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
GH: 17dGH
Water: Clear

anyone want to add their 2 cents worth, please do.
Edit: Got the thermometer shows temp to be 25C.

[span class="edited"][Edited by macbeth 2004-06-11 00:56][/span]

10/06/2004

Oh the things you forget!
Realised this afternoon that I had not put any water conditioner or ager into the tank! DOH!
So I followed the directions of both and put in 13 teaspoons of water conditioner crystals( 1 teaspoon per 10L) and 13 drops of the ager (1 drop per 10L).
Did a recheck on the water parameters after several hours to let things disolve and mix.

Test results:
Temp: 24C (I'm assuming a bit here, the thermo strip has lost its spark and doesn't show anything even though the water feels warmish and the heater is not on... but still working. Going to buy a real thermometer tomorrow)
pH: 8.3 (between 8.2 and 8.4)
Ammonia: 4-ppm (bewteen 2 and 4)
Nitrite: 0ppm
GH: 14dGH
water: clear

Now just wanting the ammonia to go back to 0ppm and I'll be happy.