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Sorry, Jungle...

That's not the way to go.

The dosing of the "New Improved Cycle" will provide the required bacteria to cycle a tank quicker. I see no purpose in filtering out bacteria in a new tank with an over-rated filter and media used for ponds.

Large tanks take a little longer to age and clear. The NIC will speed things along. Follow product directions but do a 30% water change to dilute all the stuff you've been dumping in the tank.

--garyroland.

FYI...when using a diatom filter for a chronic problem like this one, its a good idea to let the filter run for a while...

In particular, one trick I like to use in "pea-soup" tanks is to let the diatom filter "collect" all the algae, then let it run with the concentrated algal mat for a few days...provided you've corrected the source of your algae bloom, this allows the algae to consume any remaining excess nutrients in the tank before you remove them, thus preventing a recurrence.

Hi Country Girl, after re-reading your post, white haze in your tank, Food you are feeding your fish, cheap and nasty, bulk foods have high concentrations of fillers, fats, ash etc,which will significantly also add to your woes,cloudy water.If you are using a cheap food throw it out and get some fresh good quality food, that does not cloud your tank. All those who have tried the many different foods, will tell you which ones are the worst, always ask whats in your food, you will be surprised what some of the ingredients are.We only use Tetra Colour Bits and Flora Flake best growth rates and cleanest food available. Good luck, Muss

GodSmile...

Using a Diatom filter does not remove the bacteria from the water. It removes small suspended particles that the regular filtration unit leaves behind at times. The beneficial bacteria is not something you can see in a fish tank.

Countrygirl, have you considered that the tank may have an excessive amount of nutrients in it? Since it appears you are still going through a cycle (which I agree, should be over by now) I would check for high levels of phosphates. By the way, what are you getting for Nitrates? Any reason to believe your water may have a high level of iron in it?

Hi Country girl, sounds like your LFS has done alright out of you and the chemical companies. Filtration is the most important part of fishkeeping, the adding of chemicals to treat water is cruel to the fish you are keeping. Please post tank sizes, filtration system, flow rates and stocking levels.Some types of decorations, coloured gravels, substate, driftwood etc. can add to your problems as well. Please let the tank settle without adding anymore chemicals, waterchanges (daily,weekly,)only small amount each 2 weeks. Waterchanges(adding chemicals) upsets the balance of the tank daily, adjustments must be stressing the fish and yourself. If you must have clear (crystal-clean water)water you will need a much better/bigger filtration system (uv sterilization unit) to suit your set-up and stock load.Get the filtration right before going to a chemical solution always, your fish will last a lot longer/ happier life.Always go for over filtration if in doubt, go biggest and best you can afford. Good luck Muss

I'd have to side with Gary, as usual, on this one. A diatom filter may be all well and good, but its not addressing the problem, its just cleaning up after it. If you keep removing the bacteria from the water, it will cloud up again and you keep prolonging the cycle. The suspended bacteria are whats keeping the ammonia as low as it is right now. Removing them, much like daily water changes and the addition of new fish, will keep putting off the completion of the cycle.

I would guess you're still cycling at 65 days in because you never let it fully cycle in the first place. If you add new fish before you finish, the process starts all over again, and takes longer than would be expected. The size of your tank causes the cycle to take longer than a smaller tank.

I would suggest you stop the water changes and cure all solutions and let the cycle take its place. what that means for the rays, im not sure, but you'll have to face the cycle sometime, and nows as good of a time as any other. Seeing as you are already have developed some type of colonization of bacteria, I would think NIC is unneccesary, as I consider it more of a jump starter than a cycle enhancer.

Mike

I think I am going to stop adding chemicals to it for a couple weeks, stop messing around with the cycle and see what happens. Those vortex pumps are almost 300 canadian including taxes. Maybe nature will take its course and improve the clarity on its own. It is a beautiful tank and I did have pics online but the place I had my website on is gone so I have to put them up somewhere new. Will let you know when I do.

Countrygirl...

I'm with Jungle-Jim on this one. We have a couple of the Vortex filtration systems that he mentioned that we use periodically on our tanks and they work like a charm to do what they call "polish" the water. At times I put a small filter bag with activated carbon inside the Vortex for added strength. Works great.

If you go to www.bigalsonline.com and enter Vortex in the search engine that will take you to the page where the filtration systems are located. We use the XL Models.


250 gallons eh? I bet that is one amazing tank. Do you have any pictures of it?

With a tank that size investing in one of these filtration systems would truly be the way to go.

"Doing water changes every day..."

My article will cover that waste of time.

--garyroland.

we have a wet dry filter with a 1200 gph pump. The sump is 50 gallons with ALOT of bioballs. There is no fincurl on the rays at all. All fish are eating well and we have been very careful checking all the levels every day, doing water changes everyday, I think the problem we are having is adding to many chemicals that don't work. I think we should sit on it for a couple weeks and see if it doesn't clear up as soon as the Nitrites hit zero.

Hi There!
I think this is my first post here. I have searched for fish on here all the time just not used the boards.

Anyway, I have a 250 gallon planted tank that is about 5 feet long, almost 3 feet in width and almost 2 feet deep. It has been up and running for around 65 days now. It is not fully cycled yet amonia has been zero for well over a month nitrites have been bouncing around between 0.1 and 0.8. I think this is probably due to all of the things we have done to try to clear the tank.

In the tank we have a white foggy haze, it is not real bad, but you can tell it is there. It drives my husband insane, we have used everything we can think of to clear it including following others' advice. One tip we had was to use aquarium salt, quick cure and aquasafe, this did not work. We had been told to try cycle, this did not work. We have tried several bottles of Clear both the red cap and blue cap. We have tried Wardley Clean Sweep, another clarified from walmart in a small squirt bottle, some really stinky pond clearing stuff which was recommended by the pet store, charcoal, charcoal and more charcoal and water changes by the dozens and probably a few other things I can't remember. Nothing has worked, we want a crystal clear tank. Any ideas??

All that and I forgot to tell you how it works!

DE is made of the shells of diatoms, microscopic aquatic critters. These shells are highly porous, and when a layer of them is applied to the right kind of filter pad, water can actually be forced through these pores.

These pores are said to be as small as 0.5 microns (thats 1/1000th of a half centimeter), so you will filter out most bacteria, algae, and any suspended solids that you can see.

Generally they more DE you use in a filter, the smaller the material you will trap, up to a point.

More DE --] slower flowrate
Less DE--] faster flowrate


There is a good balance somewhere in the middle, where you are catching most of the floating stuff and running it through the filter at a decent clip. For diatoms, I find that about 1/2 - 3/4 of a cup works well. I would follow whatever the directions say for a vortex...I haven't used mine in years.

Your biofilter should be concentrated in one or more locations (a sponge filter, a biowheel, the cartridge of a power filter, a chamber in a canister filter, your gravel, etc)...not suspended in the water column.

Since it sounds like you've spend about $100 on "quack" clarifying remedies, I'll recommend a solution that won't cost too much:

Find someone local to you that has a diatomaceous earth filter. Ask if you could borrow it, or even rent it.

(If you want to shell out some $$$, buy one yourself. Diatomagic is one type, by Tetra/Second Nature...I like these b/c they are easy to setup, run, and breakdown as needed. Vortex has a few models as well, but these are "clunkier", although the end result is the same.)

On a tank as large as yours, you will probably need to let whatever model you use run for a day or so, and you may need to clean and recharge it once or twice, but it will clear your water very nicely.


The vortex model actually works well if you run it constantly, cleaning/recharging it every week or so. While harder to setup, it has more capacity and can go longer without clogging.

The diatomagic model is a "maintenance type" hang-on-tank filter which I use primarily for getting rid of suspended stuff after a good gravel vaccuming...the ease of setup/charging/cleanup makes this good for clearing the tank after water changes, etc. I use this on all my tanks, and the water stays clear until I stir up some gunk during the next gravel vac/water change.



If you decide to buy one, don't get fooled into buying special "aquarium grade" diatomaceous earth (DE). DE for pools is fine, as long as it doesn't contain added chlorine. DE is made of silica, which is a supsected carcinogen, so keep it moist and don't breathe the stuff.

I have used pool-grade DE for over 10 fishtanks, ranging from 35 to 180 gallons, fresh and salt water, for over 3 years with no ill effects.

Good luck!

65 days?! That's way too early to have that much fish, especially stingrays! I wish you good luck on that. How little did you spend for that Leopoldi that makes it worth putting into a cycled tank?! O_o

It won't clear up until the cycle is over; unfortunately, that's all you can do. With so many fish, especially ones as messy as stingrays, it's quite understandable that the cycle has been extended. If you have another healthy tank, it may be beneficial to take something and put it into the new tank IE gravel and filter floss. These two things have high surface area, allowing for a lot of space for bacteria to colonize. If you have another healthy tank, it'd also be a good idea to take some of the fish you have right now out. Also, the Brichardi are not really the best tankmates for the other fish as they come from Lake Tanganyika which has quite different water quality than the all of the other fish's native habitats. Your predators may eventually eat them and the other small fish, depending on the size difference between them...

BTW, the Wardley's Clean Sweep doesn't really work very well, IME...

Last but not least, make sure the rays aren't going into Death Curl; it happens to rays even when they're not in tanks that are still cycling...

[span class="edited"][Edited by Shinigami 2004-05-31 20:58][/span]

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

Bacterial blooms are good. You are ruining the cycle by trying to use all of these tank clarifying things.

Oh and no Bio Spira in Canada unfortunately

Ah stocking levels. Of course being the impatient gal that I am, the tank is fully stocked. Here is what I got:

1 leopoldi stingray
1 motoro stingray
2 blue acara
2 brichardi
2 fire eels
2 moonlight gorami
2 blue gourami
2 red irian rainbows
3 bala sharks
3 Geophagus Juripari
5 congo tetras

that's what I was thinking, it needs more time, it's been too long now as far as I am concerned lol

I believe the foggy water is due to the tank cycling... that's the bacteria in the water that you see. Adding all that gunk to the tank to clear has probably actually been prolonging the cloudy appearence. Is Biospira available in your area? I know there's a bit of a shortage of it at the moment, but if you can get a hold of that, it may help.

You say the tank has been running... what's your stocking level or are you fishless cycling? Either way, the length of the cycle seems a bit long...

I'm sure someone else can better advise you, but I thought I'd stick my nose in.

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

Jungle Labs Water Clear Tank Buddies removes cloudy or hazy conditions from the water.
However with that being said, often cloudy water doesn't appear the instant an aquarium is set up. Instead it appears days, weeks, or even months later. In these cases the cause is usually due to bacterial bloom. As the new aquarium goes through the initial break in cycle, it is not unusual for the water to become cloudy, or at least a little hazy. It will take several weeks to several months to establish bacterial colonies that are able to clear wastes from the water. Over