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Hello all, it has been awhile but I have a couple questions if anyone can help. I have 2 20g tanks one is a standard 20 and the other is a 20L. I do water changes every week of about 50%. I clean the gravel each week alos with a Python unit. My 20 standard tank has a 5-15 Aqua-Tech HOB & a RUGF with 2 Penguin 660R units attached. My 20L has 1 Aqua-Tech 10-20 HOB & 1 AC 150 HOB unit. Both tanks have a good amout of live plants in them. I bought the plant buds from wal-Mart and they have grown very nicely. The 20S has about 2 1/2 inches of gravel and some normal decor from LFS. The 20L has about 1 1/2 inches of gravel and some normal decor. I try not to overfeed and I feed 2X a day except Saturdays which I don't feed at all. On Sundays I feed at night. I clean the filter Media each week. I do alternate the filters though. You can look in my logbook to see the stock of the tanks. I also have a DIY CO2 system on both tanks and I also use Peat Moss on the 20L.

Now on to the issue about the above. I check my water prams every week the day after I do my water change. Now I noticed that my tank prams are alot higher then what my tap is. I have checked right out of the tap with the API Master Kit. I don't get why my prams are so much higher in the tank and not out of the tap. I believe I am doing everything like I am supposed to. Below are my water prams...

Tap Prams
pH - 7.2
Ammonia - 0
NitrIte - 0
NitrAte - 0

Tank Prams
pH - 8.0
Ammonia - 0
NitrIte - 0
NitrAte - 30-40

What am I doing wrong. I can't get the NitrAtes and pH to get as low as the tap water. Please just give me some ideas. Thanks

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There don't seem to be any obvious problems. Are the pH and nitrate levels the same on both tanks, or is this just for the twenty long?

For the nitrates, do you notice a lot of gunk in the gravel when you clean it out, or much organic matter floating around in the water? Do the plants have any die-off? How clean is the filter media? Does it get clogged enough that cleaning is necessary every week, or do you just clean it by choice?

I'm not sure what could be causing the high pH. I would have guessed that oxygen content had something to do with it, but the C02 system should at least partially counteract that. Could it be that the caves in each tank are calcium-based? If so, they're likely the cause of the pH level. Have you check the general hardness of the water?

Sorry for all the questions, but I can't figure this out straight off.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Are the pH and nitrate levels the same on both tanks, or is this just for the twenty long?

Well the NitrAtes are the sam in both but the 20L does tend to be like apoint lower. The 20L is about 7.8-7.9 and the other 20 is 8.0.

do you notice a lot of gunk in the gravel when you clean it out, or much organic matter floating around in the water?

There is not a whole lot. There does tend to be more in the areas were there is no decor or plants. The only time I really see anything floating is when I first add water to the tank from the tap. It tends to go away after a couple hours.

Do the plants have any die-off?

I did have one that just didn't want to stay alive. It was some type of sword plant. The leaves kept dieing off so I removed it this last weekedn when I did my water change. The rest of the plant to good. I have to cut them down alittle evey week to prevent them from outgrowing the tanks.

How clean is the filter media? Does it get clogged enough that cleaning is necessary every week, or do you just clean it by choice?

Usally not real bad. There is some gunk in the media but tend to wash right off. The filter does not get clogged or backup. I don't clean each filter each week. I alternate the filter I clean but I do clean a filter each week. My 20S has three filters so week 1 I clean filter 1, week 2 I clean filter 2, week three I clean filter 3, then I start over with filter number 1. The 20L has to filter so each filter get cleaned every other week. It is the same as the other 20 but the 20L only has 2 filters. I don't have to clean the filters but I do to prevent problems.

Could it be that the caves in each tank are calcium-based?

I have bought the caves at Wal-Mart, PetSmart & PetCo. They aren't rocks that I just picked up. I would asume they would not be the cause. Is there a way to test the rocks? I heard something about rubbing alcohol can be used to test them.

Have you check the general hardness of the water?

The test kit I have does not have a hardness test. I was using the strips but have heard they can't be reliable. I can't find anyplace in my area that has that kind of test. I will be ordering a kit this weekedn I hope. The strips told me that my GH and KH were both at 300ppm if that gives you any idea.

Sorry for all the questions, but I can't figure this out straight off.

Not a problem. If it will help I will give the information I know. Thank you for taking the time to try to help. I hope the above helps alittle.

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Live life to it's fullest
Who knows what tomorrow holds

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Needeles,

Not having studied all ends of your entries, something strikes me as off:

Tap ph of 7.2 and a KH of 300 - if that would be true (did you measure these values right from the tap or did you let the water sit for a while) it would give you a tap CO2 of almost 32ppm, quite a lot (and I don't know if that is even possible).

Let's assume this would be true, then: your plants suck up the CO2 in the water, surface agitation does the rest (alas your DIY CO2 does not work right), and that drives up the ph.

Would be my guess,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Could you check your KH. You might have a rock or rocks in the tank that are raising your PH.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hi,
Generally speaking, you should always wait at least
24 hours after changing that much water (50%) before
running any chemistry tests. That allows for circulation
to mix the old and new water and for degassification to
occur.

If, after 24 or more hours you still have "odd" values,
then you should look for other suspects such as accumulated
gunk in the substrate, rocks that are carbonates
(limestone, etc.) in the tank, badly clogged filter, etc.

I would also take a clean glass, fill it with water and
leave it sit out (not exposed to smoke or cooking odors)
for 24 hours and then test that to see what the results
are after degassification. If it is high or "odd" in
readings, you have two possibilites... The city has
changed water sources (they do that about every 3 to 6
months, regularly) or your test kit has aged and the
reagents are old, or the strips have been contaminated.
If that is the case, purchase a new kit.


Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Well I live out in the country so I use well water as my source. I test my tanks after they have been filled for at least 24 hours to allow for the mixing. The tap was checked withit sitting 24 hours for the above tests. The hardness test was done about a month ago after the water had sat for 24 hours. My gravel is not really all that dirty when I do my cleaning especilly on the tank that has the RUGF system in it. The rocks and decor I have were all bought from LFS. I do have a couple rocks in the tank that are real, not fake rocks. One rock is an orange and white color and the other is a black color. How do I test them rocks? I can't really check the KH or GH at the moment unless I use the strips which I have been told are very unreliable to use.

Should I let the tap sit for 24 hours then check the pH, ammonia, NitrIte & NitrAte? I will be ordering a hardness test kit this weekend.

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Live life to it's fullest
Who knows what tomorrow holds

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I beleive if your rocks bubble when you put vinigar on them then they will raise your Ph.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Ok so I checked one of the larger rocks that was in the tank before. I tried by using three different types of acid. I read that the Ammonia #2 and the NitrIte #1 in the API test kit were good to use. I tried the above two and also tried using Distilled White Vineger. None of them did any fizzying or foaming.

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Live life to it's fullest
Who knows what tomorrow holds

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Ok so I checked the tap prams again after it sat for 24 hours. The pH jumped up to 8.0 and is the same as the tanks. The NitrAte though is still different. Out of the tap it is 0 but in the tanks it is 30. Any other ideas on what may be going on? Should I start doing water changes maybe 2x a week instaed of only doing it once? Thanks

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Live life to it's fullest
Who knows what tomorrow holds

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I don't have any idea about the twenty gallon high, but the peat could be the issue on the twenty long. I don't know if it's true, but it could be that filtering the water through peat adds nitrates. It's probably not the case, though. I can't think of anything else, except that perhaps the areas around your plants and the roots may not be vacuumed often. If so, there could be some gunk buildup there.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Thanks for getting back to me. I know before I started using the Peat that the NitrAte were still around 30. Using the peat did make the pH drop alittle but only for alittle while then it went back up. I started using the peat to help with lowering the pH but I also like the look of the water with it.

I think I'll start doing water changes 2x a week and maybe cut down my feedings to 1x a day. Do you think this would be a good or bad idea? I know Cichlids are supposed to be fed alittle more then most fish so would this be bad to do for them? Thanks

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Live life to it's fullest
Who knows what tomorrow holds

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You could cut back to one per day, or simply just reduce slightly the amount you feed. Twice a day is better for most fish (the ones that feed more or less constantly in the wild, as opposed to predators of larger items).

Increased water changes can only help. I really don't know what else could solve the nitrate issue here. The 'trates aren't that high, but you're doing well to try and knock them down anyways.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."