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Hi there I'm currently cycling 2 tanks (for the 1st time). They are both at varying stages. I know the cycle period can take a while, but particularly in tank 1, my ammonium seems high. My fish seem happy, but I'm not an expert & may be misjudging that. My latest tests results are:-

Tank No. 1 is 20G & has 2 guppies. This is Day 21 of Cycle
Ammonium: 0,8; PH 7.5; Nitrate 10 ppm; Nitrite 1 ppm

Tank No 2 is 43.5G & has no fish (live bacteria added). This is Day 4
Ammonium: 0,2; PH: 7.5; Nitrate: 20ppm; Nitrite: 0

To Tank one, I'be been adding 20ml Cycle a day, but think I might let the water just rest. This tank has now tested Ammonium 0,8 for a couple of days. Even tank 2, considering it is fishless, seems high.

I think I'll probably add 2 guppies to tank no. 2 tomorrow.

Is there anything else I should be doing, or is it normal for it to be so high at this stage. Is it just a case of being a bit more patient?

Cheers
TW

Hi,
I'd hold off for just a bit longer if I were you.
My concern is that in tank one, you say you have an
ammonia reading of 0.8, nitrite of 1, and nitrate of 0.
That indicates that the last stage of the cycling bacteria,
the ones that change nitrite to nitrate have not yet grown.
Adding fish to that tank is too dangerous for the fish.

In your second tank you say that you have an ammonia
reading of 0.2, a nitrite reading of 0, and a nitrate
reading of 20. This does not make sense, unless you had
something suddenly die and is rotting in the tank.
The ammonia reading of 0.2 indicates something is
off... IF the nitrite reading is actually 0, and
the nitrate reading is actually 20.

The way the cycle works, is that the Ammonia will
accumulate until the bacteria that breaks down the
ammonia to nitrite form, and then the ammonia will
drop off, and at the same time, the nitrite will go
up, then the bactera that breaks down the nitrite and
form nitrate will grow. At this time the ammonia will
drop to zero or very nearly 0, the nitrite will drop off
and the nitrate will climb. You know your tank has cycled
when the ammonia, and nitrite readings are both 0 and the
nitrate is the only reading you get.

You might want to take some of your water into the LFS and
ask them to test it to see how your readings, and theirs
compare.

Once the tanks have cycled you can add fish safely.
However, don't "dump a bunch" in at the same time as
there will be a sudden increase of ammonia from the new
fish, and the cycle ( a mini cycle) will occur as the
bacteria grow to meet the new food sources (ammonia &
nitrite).

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks Frank,

Today’s tank readings are:-

(Tank 1 - 20 US Gallons) - Contains 2 Guppies
DAY 22 - Ammonium 0,8 PH 7.5 Nitrite 1 ppm Nitrate 10 ppm

Tank 2 - 43.59313 Gal (US) – Has Never contained fish
DAY 5 - Ammonium 0,2 PH 7.5 Nitrite 1 ppm Nitrate 20 ppm

I can’t figure out what is going wrong. I’ve added live bacteria to both tanks. Today, I purchased & added to the water a product specifically to bring down ammonia & nitrite – with no change to test results.

In your second tank you say that you have an ammonia reading of 0.2, a nitrite reading of 0, and a nitrate reading of 20. This does not make sense, unless you had something suddenly die and is rotting in the tank
I don’t understand what is happening here, as I have never had fish in this tank. This tank is heavily planted and the only thing that I can think of that has died are my Macranda plants, which for some reason didn’t do well & started to lose leaves almost from day one. I’ve tried to scoop these leaves out, but know I’ve not got them all out. Could these leaves be rotting and causing my problem? I feel I can’t move forward with Tank 2, as I can’t add fish to complete the cycle, because the water is a problem.

With Tank 1 – so far, my fish still seem lively and happy and are feeding well despite the results.

I will try to get lfs to test my water tomorrow, if I make it home from work before they close. I’m feeling a bit frustrated that I can’t get it right, and worried I never will. Any hints on what else I can do. If it is a case of rotting leaves in tank 2, am I better to empty tank out & start all over again?

For some reason, whenever I use an apostrophe, I'm getting jumbled symbols replacing my text (as above)- is anyone else having this problem?

Cheers
TW

Hi,
I wondered about the "weird" things in the various places!
You might want to post that question in Site Feedback for
Adam to check out.

As far as your tanks are concerned, in the fish-less tank
you simply need to keep adding whatever you are using as
the source for your ammonia. If you are using household
ammonia, be sure that it has no additives and is straight
ammonia. If you are using one of the newer additives
like "cycle" just follow the instructions that are on the
container. Cycling a tank depends on several variables
and the tank capacity can be but one of them.

In the planted tank only, always remove the dead/dying
plant material. As far as them dying is concerned, some
of that happens each time you get new plants. When plants
are moved, they have to acclimate to their new tank.
During that time they send out new roots, and the older
mature leaves yellow and die, while new leaves begin to
grow. In some plants, such as Crypts, the plants seem to
"melt" down to the basic stalk and root system, and then
later regrow as vibrant new plants. As long as the basic
bottom of the plant is still firm and not soft and mushy,
the plant "should" be fine. Are the plants actually dead
or are they simply going through a radical change?

In the 20G tank with just two guppies, they arn't gonna
produce a alot of ammonia for that size tank, and while
things will progress, it's not going to be very fast.
You might want to slightly increase the number of
fish. Or, simply start using a "cycling" additive
instead.

I once had a 55G tank that took a little over a month
to cycle (with fish) and it took a year for it to
stabilize. Much of that has to do with your fish load,
plant load, and maintenance habits.

Hang in there, things are moving along just fine.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hi Frank

The fishless tank and the fully planted tank are the same tank, being the 43.5G one. In this tank, I've being using all sorts of things to start the process, including - Nitrobacter standard, Nitrosomonas standard, Cycle, Amtrite Down & Bio Super Concentrate - all to try to keep my ammonia down & start the cycle process. Should I add fish to this tank (guppies) and if so, how many do you recommend.

Re: Are the plants dead or going through a radical change.
That is hard for me to say - not ever having had a tank (let alone a planted one). I think just a radical change. The leaves started to get a slimy look & drop off, and now I'm left mainly with barren stalks with only a couple of leaves. In my humble opinion, I think the problem was the position of the plants. They were right underneath the return water pipe from the filter & they were being bashed around by the strongly flowing water. I've redirected the water as best I can & also moved the plants further forward. So I hope that problem is solved - will go home today & try to pick out as many of the leaves that I've previously missed, in case that is what is giving me my high nitrate reading in that tank. Do you think this tank should remain fishless, or should I add some guppies? If so, how many would be safe?

I've also used all these same products in the smaller tank with the guppies - I'll take your advice & add 2 more guppies to that one, as well as topping up with Cycle daily.

Any comments, criticisms etc would be gratefully received.

Cheers
TW

If you are adding bacteria to a tank...but not adding anything for it to feed off of, you are not cycling. You should have fish in there, or be adding pure ammonia. Bacteria need food to live...fish make ammonia which feed the bacteria and coverts it to nitrites, then nitrate. Add a few hardy fish, pure ammonia, or some fish food to the 43g tank.
Some ammonia removers can give false readings. I don't know about Amrite Down though.
IMO I wouldn't add stuff like that to a cycling tank, unless your ammonia got to like 3 or 4ppm. You can't tell how the cycling is going if you are adding something to remove ammonia, which you are checking for (if that makes sense).

About the plants...how much light do you have? Macrandra (I'm guessing is Rotala Macrandra) needs high light to live.

*Kristin*

Thanks GirlieGirl8519. I was initially going to add 2 platies to the 43G tank, 3 days after adding the live bacteria. I held off & didn’t add them after all, because I got scared of the high nitrate reading of 20ppm, particularly after Frank mentioned this might indicate I had something rotten in my tank. But I’ll go out & get a couple of platies as soon as I can to add to that tank. For that size tank – how many do you think are needed to cycle it?

I was under the impression my ammonia reading of 0,8 in the 20G tank (which already has the guppies) was high, so yesterday was the first time I added the Amtrite Down. It was a knee jerk, panic reaction. But I’ll count to 10, calm down and not add any more unless it gets to 3 or 5ppm, as you suggest. Too late for today, as I already added it before reading your post. What about Cycle (the product)? Should I also stop adding that too?
Re: my lights. I have them on a timer to go on for 10hours a day – does that sound right? Thanks for your help. Any comments, criticisms etc would be gratefully received.

Edit: every time I use apostrophe, I get all these funny text symbols. Sorry, as I know that makes reading confusing. I've reported the error.

Cheers
TW

Hi,
I was hoping that someone else was reading this forum,
I did not want to be the only one responding nor did I
want folks to think that this was a set of communications
just between the two of us.

Your lights on a timer set for 10 hours is just fine.
Some folks go as much as 12, but 10 is perfectly all right.

As far as your punctuation is concerned, others have noted
a similar problem and no one is sure, yet, if it is a
peculiarity of the new site, or if it is some setting in
your computer. It's up for grabs! (I tried an apostrophe
just to see if it occurred with me too.)

As you can see I don't have that problem. Are you typing
your replies in something like Word and transfering it
over? If so, much of the embedded "stuff" will not cross
over to a "text" editor. If you are doing it in another
word processor, save the finished product as a .TXT file
and then bring it over.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

every time I use apostrophe, I get all these funny text symbols

Your post is not the only one I've seen that has the crazy symbols when using an apostrophe. Hopefully that will get straightened out soon.

Keep adding Cycle. I don't know that it works good..some people say it does, some people say it doesn't...but it won't hurt to keep adding it.

I would get 4-5 platies, depending on how many you want to keep...if you do keep them. I think 4 will be enough. The plants will help speed the cycle up a little, but you need to add the fish for things to start happening. I am not sure about the Nitrate reading...that is a mystery to me.
0.8ppm of ammonia isn't that much. I had up to 4ppm of ammonia in my 10g tank with neons, a betta, and ottos and noone died. I thought my test kit was wrong, but my 55g tank checked out ok. If the ammonia gets higher...like 3ppm then add the Amrite. Good luck...and if you have any more questions ask away! /:'

*Kristin*

Thanks Frank & GirlieGirl8519

Ok, feel better now. For some reason I thought my ammonia reading was very high and I was in panic mode. Thanks for your advice.

Re: the apostrophe problem. Not sure - I sometimes do transfer to word, because there's no spell check here & you can spellcheck in word. I don't always do that though, so I'll take more notice of when, where, why it happens.

Edit: Frank - these apostrophe's worked with no problem (word was not involved). I've sent a comment to Site Feedback (following on from my earlier thread there) asking if there's any chance of spellcheck in these message forums - as that's the only reason I use word. Thank's for the tip - I know can make my posts reader friendly, as I know the problem.

Cheers
TW

Hello. It's now day 25 for the 43.5G tank and day 8 for the 20G. Today's results are:-

Tank No. 1 is 20G & has 4 guppies. This is Day 25 of Cycle
Ammonium: 0,8; PH 7.5; Nitrite: 5 ppm; Nitrate 30ppm;

Tank No 2 is 43.5G (live bacteria added). This is Day 8. Currently no fish, but 3-4 platys ordered
Ammonium: 0,2; PH: 7.5; Nitrite: 1 ppm; Nitrate: 40 ppm

I decided to conduct a little experiment. I put some tap water in my water change bucket, added the appropriate water conditioner, & then tested everything. Here are the results:-

Tap water treated with water conditioner / ager.
Ammonium: 0,4; PH: 7.5; Nitrite: 0 ppm; Nitrate: 30 ppm

So, I guess I'm not starting out with the greatest water here.

Edit - forgot to mention that in Tank 2, around the very top of the heater, there was white fluffy stuff - which I assume is some sort of algae? I just wiped if off. I think both my tanks are a little on the warm side, as Sydney is having such a hot summer. My heater's never seem to even need to turn themselves on, as the water just stays warm. Without the heaters turning on, my thermometers say the water is around 82-84 degrees. I left the front part of the hood open today, hoping that might cool things down.

Cheers
TW

Hi,
There is a spelling checker available for download
that, when installed, is available with a simple "right
click" of your mouse. It works fine here in FP and I use
(misuse) it all the time. Unfortunately, I don't remember
which forum to direct you to so that you could download it.

You might post in either Site Feedback, or in Recovery
Room, and one of the folks who has a better memory than
I,will be able to tell you the site for downloading it.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hi there, what could be happening after that test is the chloramine is being broken down and ammonia is being released, it may be actually ammonium, which is not toxic as far as I know, the test kit is reading it as ammonia. You may need to try a different water conditioner as well as a different test. Are you using a reagent test with liquid drops added to tank water in a vial, or are you using test strips? The strips are pretty inaccurate.
Also remember when using the drip test to rinse the tube first with water from the tank, dump this down the sink, then add the water to the tube from the tank and proceed as usual, this prevents a false reading of ammonia from the tap water used to rinse the test last time it was used.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Thanks Frank & luvmykrib
Frank - I'll investigate that spellchecker - thanks for the tip. PS. I did ask the LFS to test my water the other day, as you suggested. They could only test for ammonia & PH, as they didn't have an opened test kit for nitrate or nitrite & weren't prepared to open one for the purpose. Their results were similar to mine though.

luvmykrib - I'm using the liquid drop type test & always rinse the tubes in tank water 1st. I already changed my water conditioner on the weekend, to one that supposedly helps eliminate ammonia, as well as chlorine & chloramine - but nothing changed at all with my results. Not even when I added additional product called Amtrite Down (used this 2 days in a row, but stopped using it due to advice received in earlier reply). Never mind - I guess my tank will get there in the end.



Cheers
TW