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Just a note, daily water changes can be good, but they can also be bad. Low nitrates can result in cyanobacteria.

Tanks with supplements in them can get costly to dose them daily. Dechlor alone isn't cheap after a month of daily water changes.

Fish will get use to the crystal clear water being changed every day and the lack of any waste. But if something happens where water changes can not be done every day, what will happen to the fish who are not use to leveled nitrates?

Another note... everyone is talking about how they get continuous water changes. What about the fish downstream? They are getting all the waste water from the upstream fish. What about slow moving waterways? What about ponds and lakes not connected to rivers and streams? They don't get continuous water changes.

Just my $0.02

~Jorge

First of all, no need to get quite so upset; it's just a discussion.


"Tap water is made safe for us (humans) to drink by adding different minerals, metals, chlorine, and chloramines. We don't live in it, we don't breath through it. Why do they make "water conditioner"? because tap water is safe for humans not FISH!!!!!!!!!!!!"

And when you perform said large water changes, obviously water conditioner shculd be used. That said, many of the trace elements in tap water are necessary and beneficial for fish, ot else people using RO water would only need to add a buffer and no trace elements.


Small stresses have been shown with humans, fish, and mammals to be beneficial in terms of mental, physical, and emotional health. The small amount of stress caused by the water change is far outweighed by this benefit and the benefit of fresh water.

After all, in the wild fish are NEVER living in "dirty" water; the bioload is so low and water is so often replaced, that they're being given the equivalent of constant water changes.

Drs. Foster and Smith:
"But perhaps the worst problem associated with a traditional water change is the stress it places on fish."
First off, they're trying to sell you something, and that rarely makes for the ideal source of information.
Second of all, they're not wrong: there are plenty of ways to do water changes that minimise stress. I'm not suggesting dipping a bucket in and scaring the fish half to death, but daily Python changes with a weekly gravel vac will add almost no stress to the fish, and remove a lot of the osmoregulatory stress that build up of waste can cause.

The second quote doesn't say anything new, and again: of *course* any water being added to the tank should be treated. A good water conditioner removes chlorine, chloramines, and heavy metals. So that's not a worry.

Last edited by LittleMousling at 08-Feb-2005 11:08

-Molly
Visit shelldwellers.com!

Okay, you win Bob


This time


And for those that care for their fish's health, here ya go
http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=79



How much do you change out each week DoctorJ?

Last edited by militarysnake at 08-Feb-2005 11:07

I'm sold on the significant water changes regime and change a third of the water weekly. Since the tank has cycled, I've never had even a hint of ammonia or nitrite and the fish look healthy. If I had more time or if my tank was more heavily stocked, I'd go bi-weekly. Nice article, Bob! Great reading!

I'm sorry but I wouldnt trust "Dr." Fosters and smith with my worst enemies fish.

And dirty gravel smells bad. But perhaps the worst problem associated with a traditional water change is the stress it places on fish.

I've seen a tank in very bad condition when I went to pick it up from the previous owner. They'd never seen a gravel vac, but the "dirty" gravel didnt smell. "traditional water changes" when done properly will NOT Stress fish. Many of us keep bettas, and provide them with 50-100% water changes daily to weekly, it's about doing it properly.

^_^ [hr width='40%']"Somewhere beyond happiness and sadness
I need to calculate,what creates my own madness...
and I am waiting for disaster"

Little mouse, check this out. I understand you may get happiness when taking your daily shower but you are not a freaking fish!

Any disturbance and or change to a fish's environment causes stress. If you're changing water, re-decorating, adding fish, removing fish, tapping on the glass, raising the PH, lowering the PH, changing the temp or the Hardness.

All of these things cause stress on the fish and why in the hell would you want to do any of it more than needed?

It is needed for discus (40% weekly not daily)

It is not needed for MOST fish


GGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!




Here is a article from the great DR's Foster and Smith, pay close attention to the very last sentence!

----Regular water changes are critical to maintaining a healthy underwater environment. In addition to replenishing trace elements absorbed by inhabitants or other biological processes, water changes reduce nitrate levels which are constantly increasing due to fecal decomposition and plant activity. In a balanced marine, reef, or freshwater aquarium, one that is not over-stocked and is equipped with a quality filtration system, water changes may be done monthly. For garden aquariums, weekly changes are best to replace the trace elements consumed by hungry plants.
Although every aquarist is well aware of the importance of regular water changes, not everyone changes their water as frequently as necessary because of the unpleasantness of the task. The usual tools - buckets, scrapers, brushes and more - are awkward to use. Buckets are heavy. Spills go with the territory. And dirty gravel smells bad. But perhaps the worst problem associated with a traditional water change is the stress it places on fish.


And another from the Doctors:

Don't take the quality of your tap water for granted. If you draw your water from a well, nature may not be providing you the perfect balance. If you are using tap water from your municipal department, it likely includes minerals and additives. The water may look crystal clear and smell perfectly clean, but it may still contain levels of substances toxic to your fish.
Take a close look at your well water analysis or contact your local water department to request a water analysis. Though the water will vary from day to day, the analysis will enable you to make informed decisions about what you need to do to maintain healthy water conditions in your aquarium.

Most municipalities add chlorine or chloramine to the water. Both are detrimental to the gills of your fish. But did you know that not all dechlorinators available are effective on chloramines? Read the labels. If you have high levels of chloramines, you may want to select a product designed specifically for chloramine control.

Well water can contain phosphates, a popular ingredient in lawn and garden fertilizers. Plus, some municipalities add phosphate to protect their pipes. Although these are not toxic, they can fuel aggressive algae growth in your aquarium.

Whether you have city or well water, potentially harmful heavy metals are likely present.



Last edited by militarysnake at 08-Feb-2005 10:49

Last edited by militarysnake at 08-Feb-2005 10:54

Others are propagated through ignorance and bad advice.

Fish enjoy and thrive in clean fresh (dechlorinated) water from the tap. In nature the water is continuously being replaced, so most fish aren't used to high levels of wastes in their water. So then why would they want to live in dirty water? The cleaner the water, the better.

This couldn't be farther from the truth. Plain common sense will tell you other wise.

Tap water is made safe for us (humans) to drink by adding different minerals, metals, chlorine, and chloramines. We don't live in it, we don't breath through it. Why do they make "water conditioner"? because tap water is safe for humans not FISH!!!!!!!!!!!!]

"Large water changes are not required for most fish!
Large and/or irregular water changes cause stress for most fish!
Everyone knows you need a little "dirty" in the water to make it a healthy environment.
Why would anybody go the extra length to do more than required just to cause stress on their fish?"

But these are the same myths that were just addressed.

A: Well, showering every day (or at all) isn't "required" for me - but I (along with the rest of my community) am quite glad I do it anyway: it provides cleanliness, health, and frnakly happiness.
B: Large regular water changes reduce stress. And the stress of large water changes is quite arguably far less than the stress of living in high nitrates.
C: No, everyone doesn't know that. According to who? And why would that be good? Can you clarify this point?
D: This deserves a re-quote: "Why would anybody go the extra length to do more than required"? I realize that's not the whole quote but I disagree it causes stress, so basically this argument is: why do more than the minimum for your fish? I don't think I even have to rebut that. After all, why do more than the minimum in any situation? Oh, yes - Because You Should.

-Molly
Visit shelldwellers.com!

Didn't you send me an e-mail on this, Bob?

You are a keeper of Discus, therefore you are correct about needing to do daily, large water changes, for your discus.

Discus are the only damn fish that need that kind of abnormal care as it is not recommended anywhere **** that the average fish need more than a 20% water change done weekly.

There are however, exceptions to this fact and that is if your tank has an extremely large bio-load, you are medicating your fish, or some other emergency that would fall under the "other than routine care" catagory.

You simply should not be telling people on this site that they should do any more than 25% water changes weekly for
ROUTINE care!

Large water changes are not required for most fish!
Large and/or irregular water changes cause stress for most fish!
Everyone knows you need a little "dirty" in the water to make it a healthy environment.
Why would anybody go the extra length to do more than required just to cause stress on their fish?


Last edited by ACIDRAIN at 08-Feb-2005 20:04

The danger of "creating a mini-cycle" with a large water change is something that I have frequently seen on many boards. However, the water changes do not significantly impact the heterotrophic or the nitrifying bacteria in your aquarium even with a vigorous vacuum cleaning of the substrate as the critters coat the surfaces of the substrate and your filter media as well as any hardscape or plants in your aquarium.

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

Makes perfect sense to me. The only thing I wonder about doing large dailys is what about the cycle. But then again, you need not worry about it if you keep to the daily regiment.