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I think I'll keep the clown loach for about 4-5 months and then give it to my neighbor who owns an waaaaay understocked 80 gallon tank. She has TWO penguin 330 filters, she makes water changes once every 2 weeks, and she keeps 4 medium fish and 2 crabs and is always talking about how she wants more fish. maybe I should give it to her now! But i think she just got an eel so it might not be a good idea becuase its current size is a little over an inch long


[span class="edited"][Edited by IhAvEsOmEfIsH 2004-08-14 03:46][/span]

[span class="edited"][Edited by IhAvEsOmEfIsH 2004-08-14 03:46][/span]

ok thnks

Firstly, for someone who didn't want to do any tank maintenence, stay away from salt water! Salt water is FAR more expensive and the fish are far too delicate.

As for is all the equipment necessary: yes! I run a tank larger than yours, and some smaller than yours, and every one has a heater. If you want to keep fish, you need to keep their home stable, and temperature is part of that.

We're trying to help you, and you seem to be a very impulsive person. Fishkeeping needs a bit of patience. Even cycling can take a month. Think carefully about the fish you want and decide if they're what you really want.

Edit: I just read the article on this site in regards to clown loaches. You should read it too. Here's an extract that's particularly important:

Clown loaches are well known as indicator fish. Your water parameters fall the least bit off (nitrites and ammonia) and you risk them dropping dead on you. They are especially sensitive to chlorine. Any chlorine in your tank can lead to massive clown loach die offs.

That loach probably wont survive the cycling process. Take it back to the store as soon as possible. I'm not sure how it would go with your friend's crabs either.

[span class="edited"][Edited by Ferox 2004-08-14 04:54][/span]

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I just came across a reverse flow power head. What does it do?

I don't think I need a heater I think i need a tank fan becuase my thermometer reads above 84F which is high for a freshwater tank!

So when both of these readings go higher it means my tank is cycling?

Heres how the cycle works, cuz I guess you havent read the beginners articles yet.

Days 1-5, you set up your tank, add water and fish and wait. Ammonia is produced by your fish and builds up to a nearly toxic level.
Days 6-10, Beneficial Bacteria Stage 1 builds up, converting your ammonia to Nitrite.
Days 11-16, Nitrite builds to nearly toxic levels, Beneficial Bacteria Stage 2 builds up, and starts converting your Nitrite to NitrAte.
Day 20+ - Ammonia Levels are 0, Nitrite levels are 0, Nitrate reads around 20-30 parts per millions. Tank is fully cycled. More fish may be added after a 30% water change. Now is when you can add some more sensitive fish, such as loaches, gouramis, and smaller tetras.
All day numbers are approximate. Sometimes a cycle can take 8-15 days, sometimes as much as 6 months. It depends on a lot of factors.\


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Just to throw in another note, maybe you need some kind of tank cooling and maybe not, but you will definitely need a heater. The temperature in a typical house is simply not stable enough for most fish.

My tank temp is to hot! My room Temp is about 85+ so when I got my thermometer it read out 85+ becuase the highest it read out to was 85. I opened all the windows in my room, turned off the tank light, and set a fan next to the tank. The water temp is decreasing EVER slightly. I'd say it'll average out to 2F-3F a day.

No it means the cycle hasnt started yet.

Oh and as for your consideration towards salt water tanks, I wouldnt reccomend it for you. If you dont want to do maintenance every 2 weeks, dont get a saltwater tank. They require some maintenance EVERY DAY.
You also need to buy much much more equipment. Like a good filter, a sump, a salinity refractometer, live rock, sand, lots and lots of expensive sea salt. You need to monitor that tank every day, and as for cost, well a freshwater tank will run you a couple hundred with all items, tank, and test kits. A saltwater tank will run you a couple THOUSAND.
It wont save you maintenance, money, or trouble. It will just give you more.
And I think clownfish are particularly aggressive (at least some are) and I think you have to be pretty careful about what fish you mix them with, including each other. I heard of one fellows tomato clown wiping out his whole collection of fish in 3 days when it decided the whole tank was its home and noone else was wanted.


[span class="edited"][Edited by Sneaky_Pete 2004-08-15 00:19][/span]

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I think if i'm going to add all this stuff I might&nbsp;well make my tank a saltwater tank. I start out with a few clown fish that coast about $3 each and look great and if I don't get sick of taking care of it and after my tank cycles I'll add whatever I want.

I checked on Petco.com, a 100w heater will run you about 12.99 on there, my guess is under 10 dollars at Walmart.
A thermometer, around 2.99.
A test kit will run you around 25-30 dollars, but you NEED one.
A thermometer only comes on when the heat drops below the temperature you set it at.
Put it in the water, wait 30 minutes then plug it in. Slowly turn the temp up till the light comes on, then turn it just down below that by a tiny bit till the lights goes off. There you go, youre set!
A clown loach will probably outgrow your tank in 6 months or so. Clown loaches are very social animals, and need a group of 6 or more. This requires at the very least a 75g tank. You should really take your poor sad and lonely clown loach back to the pet store and get a loach that stays smaller. Yoyo Loaches are nice, Queen Loaches/Botia are nice too. You dont need a clown loach. There are plenty of other loaches that would do just fine in your tank. Heres a website
www.loachesonline.com


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Wow there a lot less than they sound, for a tank my size about $15 but is all this stuff really necessary for a small 25 gallon tank?

[span class="edited"][Edited by IhAvEsOmEfIsH 2004-08-14 03:32][/span]

sounds pricey and i'm on a low budget lemme see how much they cost...

Tank heaters only turn on when the water temperature drops below the set point, and turn off when the water temp rises above a set point. If you're planning on getting one in winter, you might as well get it now, in wont turn on if there's no need, and at least you know it's there.

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If I do get a heater wont it make my tank to hot? becuase room temperature is about 70F-80F And also, how long does it take for the clownloaches to start outgrowing a tank my size?

[span class="edited"][Edited by IhAvEsOmEfIsH 2004-08-14 03:08][/span]

Ok,
heres a couple things you need to do:
1) BUY a Heater - fish dont like fluctuating temperatures, in fact, it can KILL them
2) Take the Clown Loach back they get huge. You are giving this poor guy a Death Sentence. They get a foot long. Take out a tape measure and compare this with the size of your tank. Also, check the photo booth on here and look at Keiths posts about his clownloaches. He has Pictures of his big ones. Or ask him to post a pic. Hey Keith, post a pic for this guy please. Do not get another clown loach.
3)Tell the guy at the fish store that hes an idiot, or better yet, send him to this website.
4) Purchase the following items while you are at the store getting your heater: A Master Test Kit, a Thermometer, a bottle of Prime Water Conditioner. These things could save your fishes lifes.
5) Read the faq's under beginners forum for New Tank Owners, learn about the cycle and what you can do for your fish.
6) Realize that tank maintenance is a Necessity, not an option, and be prepared to take 20 minutes out of your week to do it.


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This message is for Ferox: I've had the tank for abou 4 days I'm trying to keep all the cycling fish alive. I don't have a heater and I'm not worried about it because the room temperature is about 75F-80F All the fish were added 3 days ago. I'm probably going to add a heater in the winter time when room temperature lowers to about 60F But on second thought I could just turn up my houses heater.

[span class="edited"][Edited by IhAvEsOmEfIsH 2004-08-14 02:10][/span]

I like the loach, i think i'll just get one more of those and 4 more of the tetras.

If guppys and platys interbreed you get a fragile ugly little thing that wont live long. I know mollies and guppies can interbreed to get muppies, which also are very ugly.

Take the clown loach back as soon as you can. Then wait for the tank to cycle. Once it's cycled, add 4 more of those tetras.

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