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Hey everyone, got a question about ammonia. Just read something that said, "keeping your water ammonia free won't cycle the tank". With that being said, let me explain my confusion. I've had my 35g hex running with a cannister and a power filter for roughly 8 weeks now. I have 10 fish in there now (4 of them more than $20) and the ammonia level has always been very little if none at all. My nitrites were way high, which also caused the nitrates to go up(I think it was because I was feeding my fish too much). I did almost a full changeout of water over a week period and now everything is where it should be, showing now change or spike at all. However, the ammonia levels have never spiked or gotten high. Is this a concern? My tank is cycled, or at least I thought so. Nitrates,Nitrites, and Ammonia are at very low ppm. Any comments?

Any comments?

Yup! IMO you tank never had a chance to fully cycle. The ammonia is what the NitrIfying bacteria feeds off of, without ammonia, ie: in an "ammonia free" environment there will be nothing for the bacteria to feed off of therefore none will grow. The nitrifying bacteria is what the NitrAfying bacteria feeds off of, without the ammonia to feed the nitrItes there will be nothing to develop the nitrAtes. So by doing a water change you depleat your colonies and never get a fully cycled tank. This is why you shouldn't do water changes while cycling a tank unless absolutly necessary....and when a water change is done (even a small one) you're likely to see a setback in your cycle progress.

I've never had very high levels of ammonia in the tanks that I cycle, likely because for the most part they've all been jump started by seeding from other tanks.

Hope I've got everything right,
if not I'm sure I'll be corrected .

^_^

Yeah, but how could his tank have had nitrites in it if it didn't go through the cycle? If his tank never cycled at all because of a lack of ammonia, then he should still be reading very little in nitrites, since there are no nitrifiers to produce them. If, on the other hand, he has a measurement error, then it's possible his tank already has plenty of ammonia consumers, which is why ammonia is still low despite having ten fish in there. Right?

Bacterial additives such as biospira or Cycle will increase the nitrIte/nitrAte readings. A tank cannot be considered cycled until both ammonia and nitrIte have both risen and fallen and remained @zero and nitrAtes are present in a range of 10-40ppm.

IME anyway .

^_^

After eight weeks and no fish deaths you should have something going in your favor...

The tests should be...zero ammonia, zero nitrites and a nitrate reading within limits could be 10ppm to 40ppm, perhaps even higher.

Large water changes should never be attempted. Small 25% changes per week or bi-weekly would preserve the good bacterial action in your size tank.

Test strips, if in use, should not be depended on for accurate readings.

--garyroland.

In response to bablefish, I had an issue with nitrites being at about 3 ppm last week. I took some water to get sampled and nitrites were at 3ppm, nitrates were at 40ppm, ammonia was just above 0. I was told to do water changes for about a week. My tank is 35g. I did one water change last Friday of about 18g. Last Sunday I did a 10g. Now those 3 levels have dropped to 1 ppm nitrite, 20 ppm nitrate, and 0 ammonia. None of the levels have changed since Friday. I thought the levels were too high because I was feeding my fish too much (they were looking pretty fat.) Ever since I had my tank (8 weeks) the ammonia levels have always been low, thats not to say there wasn't any at all. 2 different tests (the strip and the tetra drops) show that there has been very low levels of ammonia. But what could explain the rise of nitrates and nitrites, but not ammonia? I have added nitromax and cycle to the tank at what it tells me to. I don't know, I'm lost with this one. Also, I did by peice of african driftwood from a tank at the LFS. Don't you think that would have helped?

by doing those huge water changes, i think you just screwed up your cycle.

you were doing great, you has a nitrite spike, and then you had nitrates... you were days (possible hours) away from the cyce being done.

Do you think that maybe the bacteria has been built up in the gravel and the plants? Today is one week since I did my last water change, and there is still no change in nitrates, nitrites, or ammonia? I know my test equipment is good, I paid good money for it. Its made by red sea. My lfs told me that my tank was cycled, I just needed to do water changes. He's no dummy either, he's worked at a respectable place for almost 4 years now. Whatever the case, I did the water changes like he said, and know everything is like it should be. Whats going on here?

by doing those huge water changes, i think you just screwed up your cycle.

you were doing great, you has a nitrite spike, and then you had nitrates... you were days (possible hours) away from the cycle being done.

I don't see how that could possibly be true. Aquarists conventionally define the cycle completion as being when nitrites hit zero. However, if you're getting appreciable decreases in nitrite due to bacteria, your colony is, biologically, already grown; the bacteria merely need to catch up, and the only reason you don't add fish at that point is because the water isn't actually safe for them yet. If he was days or hours from cycle completion by the aquarist definition, then he'd already have large bacterial colonies and cutting down on nitrites could only make the water safe sooner.

I have personal experience with this sort of event - after my first batch of fish died, I went fishless, and rotting fish waste caused nitrites to soar to 32 ppm (since the ammonia-eaters had easily built up to huge levels). I ended up doing two 75% changes a week apart, dropping nitrites to about 4 ppm (including newly-produced nitrite), and shortly after the second one the tank cycled, because the bacteria caught up with nitrite production at about that time. At the end I had such a large bacterial colony that I added sixteen inches of fish over five days with no ammonia spike at all over the following week. (The tank's a 20.) I have to admit that I probably owe a lot of that to the fish waste stuck in the gravel. But I don't see how the water changes hurt the cycle at all. Certainly at no time were the bacteria ever starving for nitrites.

Thank you very much for agreeing with me Silverlight. I've been trying to research as much as I can about this cycling stuff. Before I bought my tank 2 months ago, I knew nothing of it. Now I feel as if I can buy the fish I want without fear of my tank being "cycled". It makes entirely no sense for a water change to screw up a cycle in my mind. Unless you were putting toxic water into your tank or adding the new water straight to your bio. If the right things are added to your water after a water change, I actually think that it could help the cycle. Not to mention help your fish. My tank has to be cycled. Otherwise I would be seeing a substantial increase in ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate right? No change in a week, all those are at very little levels. The biggest question in my mind is if I'm right. I hope I am. And when could I turn in my guoramis and tigers to the lfs to get those nice neon lamp brichardis?

I've got the same prob.... I've had my tank for 12 month...4ft tank, 4 severum (2 Juv 4", 2 babies 1.5", 1 sailfin pleco, 1 pictus catfish,1 bumble bee catfish... I regurlarly check my parameter and everything was going well- Amonia: 0, Nitrite: 0. I do 20% weekly changes and take tests of my Nitrate, usually 10mg/L. Now, like two weeks I cleaned my filter (media Filter mat), but not the bio balls and added a new filter Now I got 2 powerheads running. BUT since then my nitrite levels have risen to just below 0.1mg/L and amonia is 0, now i don't know what to do, I've read that as long as my amonia levels don't go up as high as 7.3mg/L it should be fine or else "Toxic Amonia Levels" will be present in my tank. And my Nitrite levels must remain less than 0.3mg/L. Now I want to find a way of lowering my nitrite levels but i don't know how I've been told to let it go by and not change the water as frequently as a do so that the bacteria will catch up. I hope this info helps a bit and if anyones knows methods of how to lower nitrites please email me any help will be appreciated thanks [a href="mailto:rrosales@uvtc.net.au"]rrosales@uvtc.net.au[/a]

[span class="edited"][Edited by Necio 2004-08-22 08:13][/span]

I think I'd rather have my nitrite at 7.3 ppm than my ammonia. I'm going on a limb here but I would say that most fish wouldn't survive 1 day in ammonia over 5 ppm or so. Maybe I'm wrong, but if my ammonia levels were that high, I'd do a couple water changes and let the cycle take its time rather than killing my fish. Ammonia that high is hard to justify. The only thing that I can think of is having a bunch of fish in a small area for a long period without changing water. Oh yea, you'd have to feed them about 2 times a day. My ammonia levels have always been less than .33 ppm. Even when it was cycling.

it depends on your water's pH level and temp as well. But from my readings and my test kit "Hagen Amonia test Kit" it gives a chart where you measure your water's pH and Ammonia present then you match the two values to get a reading of "Ammonian Toxic level" which may lie in the "green","yellow" or "red" zone (red being )for cycled tank to be true no Ammonia or Nitrite should be present.... I ve been told also that i may be going through a mini-cycle due to my mistake of over claning my filter and gravel... As long as Nitrates are being produced I should be fine coz it means that the Nitrite eating bacteria are present and they need to catch up... I've also been told to maybe get some stuff that replinishes bacteria (basically bacteria in a can) and add it to my tank so that my colony will get the extra help needed or else just wait it out making sure the levels of ammonia or Nitrite do not rocket out.


[span class="edited"][Edited by necio 2004-08-23 01:23][/span]