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if the answer is to add more fish, then that leads to another problem. the only fish i wanted for the tank were tiger barbs, and then later either cory cats or a few yoyo loaches, both of which are fish pretty intolerant to unestablished tanks. as it is i have more tiger barbs than i originally wanted (i felt bad for the two remaining in the lfs tank ). is the answer to add material from an established tank or do i need more ammonia to be produced?

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ok, like i said, nitrites have just started to show so i guess things are coming along, albeit very slowly. and all i meant by the "Adding more fish" idea is that i wasnt sure if those little tiger barbs were producing sufficient waste to spur the right amount of bacteria growth along. if i change the water and add dechlorinator, will that harm the cycle? i just dont want nitrites to get too high.

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your tank is cycled if ammonia level and nitrite level are both 0
you have some ammonia reading because your fish are producing them

dirt?

Nowhereman, I dont think you need to add anymore fish

if the nitrites have climbed its going to eliminate the amonia since all of the amonia is being converted to nitrites by the bacteria. Odds are you'll see little or no amonia for the rest of the cycle, unless you do something to the tank.

well thanks for the advice anyway. actually, i'd like to give a bit of an update: today i tested positive for nitrite for the first time!!! well, its not so great for the fish i guess... but its still a sign that things are indeed happening in there. this of course still doesnt at all explain the complete lack of ammonia readings, but hey, who am i to complain about the lack of poison in my tank. thanks a lot everyone for the advice. i guess now i just have to be patient.


oh, one more thing, is it ok to do water changes?

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Hi The reason I had asked above what kind of substrate you had was because there is a gravel called "Eco-Complete" which pretty much (almost) instantly cycles your tank. I thought that could possibly be an answer to your dilema but if that's not what you have then that is not the answer.

I've definitely heard success of using the prawn method to do a fishless cycle, it's one of the popular alternatives to using pure ammonia.

You can ask the LFS, usually I think they would do it. Just make sure to pick a healthy looking tank! Oh, and when they hand you the bottle of New Improved Cycle and say , "This is all you need to cycle your tank! You won't even have to do waterchanges very often!" Just politely refuse and say you'd rather have the gravel

alas, i dont know where to get material from an established tank. i dont know anyone with a tank and im not sure if the lfs would do it. (im not sure how much i trust them - they tried to sell me kissing gouramis with my tiger barbs )

have you heard of any success stories with the raw shrimp - or prawn, rather ?

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material from an established tank will help a LOT! It is rife with good bacteria. You could buy a little cheapie corner sponge filter and run it in an established tank for a week or 2, then run it in yours. Or take a ziploc full of wet gravel from an established tank of someone you know?

You might also consider adding a raw prawn, which will add plenty of ammonia without requiring you to add more fish? I know that is a mehtod of fishless cycling, the only problem would be getting your fish to avoid eating the 4 day old prawn .... maybe you could put it in a mesh bag, then stick it under something heavy in your tank?

just throwing out ideas here, let me know what you think!

ok, i've had my tank up and running for over three weeks now. it's a 46 gallon with 11 tiger barbs in it. the problem is, it doesnt appear to be cycling properly. readings are:

ammonia: .02ppm
nitrites: 0
nitrate: 0
pH: 7.4
temp: 82 degrees (little high, but im getting rid of a small ich outbreak)

do i not have enough fish to "dirty" up the tank? what can i do to start getting this tank going? what's wrong??

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ok, honestly, i dosed my 33 gal HEAVY with cycle, never changed the water during the cycle, and watched everything like a hawk. There was hardly any increase in nitrites until week 2, when i added 1/2 the filter from my 10 gallon (only platties in it so i wasn't concerned about re-starting the cycle). Over the next week it climbed to all of .8 and then within about a week of that it converted completely to nitrates. I'de also say consider more fish possibly; i had to jam 8 platties (different sizes, proly about normal sized over all) in my 33 to realy get it going.

nope, my tank isnt planted... yet. i want to plant it but im waiting for it to cycle first, which brings me back to the current predicament. i dunno, the only thing i can think of is maybe my little barbs just arent big enough to dirty that big ole' tank.

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trust me, it's probably not cycled. Since you have seen no nitrite, and no nitrAte (which is really your biggest indicator, since you can't see nitrite until the ammonia is gone, and you can't see nitrAte until the nitrite is gone) I would say the chances are slim to none. That slime in your filter is known as "biofilm" and it is bacteria, just like you thought Also, in a fully cycled tank, you will see No ammonia or nitrite. Is your tank heavily planted? Plants suck up nitrate, but I guess that wouldn't account for the ammonia...? I'm stuck. Hopefully someone else will jump in and lend us a hand!

i've changed the water once, about 25%. ive used medicine to get rid of the ick, but didnt put in the full dose. the cartridge in my filter has patches of reddish-brown "gunk" on it, which i presume is bacteria, but if the meds kill bacteria then i dont know if thats going to last. the ammonia never jumps around, always stays about the same - its always in safe limits, between non-detectable and .02ppm (the test is based on a color code system so its hard to pinpoint). i dont understand how it can be cycled, though, having never gone through an ammonia spike or a nitrites spike. i'm also worried that if i add more fish, it's going to go through another cycle and harm the less hardy fish.

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do you always get pretty much a zero reading on ammonia or does it bounce around? it looks cycled to me.

How often are you changing the water? That can definitely be detrimental to the cycle, as it doesn't give the bacteria a chance to take hold. You shouldn't change water very often when you are cycling, about 15% every 2 weeks. Are you adding meds to the tank? That will also kill off your bacteria, atleast most meds will.

HTH

ive been testing the water parameters every other day. theyve been the same since i put the fish in three weeks ago. when i put them in i also added a dose of "cycle" to the water, but only one dose, nothing after that. could that have anything to do with it?

my substrate is small gravel, about pea-sized.

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Back in the saddle!

How often have you tested your water parameters? If you are having those readings especially with such low levels of amonia, it may already be cycled...

Edit: By the way, what type of substrate do you happen to have in the tank???

[span class="edited"][Edited by Phone'sMate 2004-07-13 18:07][/span]