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here is my plan for right now:

8 black neons
8 cories of some kind
a few platies
a BN pleco and maybe a few mystery snails

Are they any cichlids that I could put in there with them? I'd kinda like to stick to central/south america since I've pretty much got that going already. I saw some bolivian rams but I wasn't sure how to stock them (pairs vs. lots) and even if I got a pair I couldn't tell male/female apart to buy a proper pair. Are there any other cichlids that would fit my plan? Something else to keep in mind is that my pH is pretty high (above 8).

I personally like Apistogramma nijsseni. They are relative small with the male topping out at around 2" and the females a bit smaller. Nicely patterned and with an attractive coloration to both sexes. Here's a link with info and pictures.

http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/apis-nij.htm

Jim

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

I'd take the neons out because then you can add a medium sized cichlid pair like jewel cichlids or convicts or firemouths or a male of two, or a female of two.

Otherwise, I might do German Rams, they are very intersting fish

I wouldnt add jewels, convicts or firemouths in your proposed setup. You would find that the neons and platies would disappear and the cories would end up bullied and ragged. These fish would only really work in a species only tank of this size.

Any of the apistogramma species would do well, as would any of the rams. At a stretch you could possibly do kribs, but if they breed you would find that there would be trouble.

In bolivians, the males will have longer fins and brighter colours. In blue rams the females will be smaller with shorter fins and a pink tinge on their bellies.

Good luck.

I agree with all the last suggestion Dave. I have had Kribs in a 33 gallon community before and have spawned. THey did get very aggressive but never bothered any of the other fish. They were in with black skirt tetras and swordtails. The only things that might be affected would be the cories, but they'll keep their distance, well should. But remember Kribs are from africa aswell as the jewels.

the problem I had with sexing the bolivians that I saw is that I thought they were pretty young. I tried comparing their fin length but I couldn't really tell a difference in any of them and there were about 10-15 in the tank.

Cichlids for a 38 ... preferably peaceful. Here we go again with yet another repeat of the "Calilasseia Plugs Thomasis" post.

Seriously, though, either of Laetacara curviceps or Anomalochromis thomasi would work in there, and you wouldn't have too many problems with fractiousness if you ended up with two males. For that matter, in the case of these fishes, you could get six and be guaranteed of at least one pair, without the pressing need to remove the surplus ones because of vicious internecine warfare.

Among the Apistogrammas, I'd recommend Apistogramma panduro because [1] it's small, and [2] the difference in colouration between male and female is VERY obvious even at the juvenile stage, so picking a pair is ridiculously easy. Panduros might stay small enough to be compatible witn Neons even (though I'd consider integrating thsoe two species in an aquarium to be HIGHLY experimental even though panduros are small) and they'd DEFINITELY pose no threat to your other fishes.

If you're looking for a challenge, Dicrossus filamentosus is also worth a try, but that's likely to be a headache unless you have a fair amount of experience as a fishkeeper, as it's a pretty high maintenance fish.

Other alternatives include any of the Nannacara species, with Nannacara anomala probably being the easiest of the two to find.

If you're feeling seriously experimental, you could try researching the Genus Nanochromis - these are acid-loving West African Cichlids that have the potential to integrate well with South American fishes, but for one fly in the ointment - you would need to check the potential level of aggression of several species to make sure that you don't pick a feisty one. So_Very_Sneaky has Nanochromis transvestitus and can now tell you a LOT about how they behave, but I gather they'd turn out to be little ruffians in your setup, plus I gather (if I recall SVS's posts correctly of course!) they're fairly powerful substrate excavators for their size once they decide to start digging. Look up Nanochromis nudiceps as a possible rarity to pursue for your aquarium, but be prepared to drop it like a hot potato and go for a "Plan B" fish if it transpires it's too aggressive for your setup.




Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Hey there,
Id definitely suggest Nanochromis Transvestitus,
as Cali mentioned. They are super super fish!
They are pretty powerful diggers, but seem to do so mostly only in open areas, and they dont seem to like to dig around plants, thankfully.
They are great because they are a real all over the tank kind of fish, 1 of my females enjoys the top mainly, the other female hangs around at the bottom a lot, and my breeding pair seem to be mid water fish.
They can be pretty aggressive with each other, but seem to entirely ignore the tetras and otos that I have in with them. (neons, cards, glowlights, white cloud minnow assortment of leftover fish).
They definitely benefit from having dither fish. Corys would work super!

N. Transvestitus can be kept in pairs m/f, or in all female groups. Keep only 1 male per tank, 2 will certainly try to murder each other. Allow 15g of territory space per pair, and 10g each for solitary individuals or females.
A great small fish, that seems to max out in captivity at 2 inches, give or take.
Plus, they eat some algae!

With Bolivian rams, I have to disagree with the determining gender by finnage thing, its highly flawed. Many females, including all the ones I had, had just a long a filaments on their fins at maturity as the males did. Its really impossible to tell gender unless they are in breeding colors, then its easy. Female get a hot pink belly, males have a orange/yellow chest area.
Most females seem to have 2 spots on their shoulders, males seem to only have 1. I dont know if these is a sure indicator, but that seems to be true for all the ones I have kept.
Bolivian rams are great fish, keep a pair, keep a large mixed sex group, they dont do harm to each other, sometimes they squabble and show off, other times they all get along super sweetly. Id say they can be kept in any grouping. I kept a group of 5 (3 males 2 females) in my 75g tank. Due to old age Im down to one lone female who flirts with the dominant male keyhole. Hah.

A couple other suggestions:
Keyhole Cichlids (south american, 4 inches, beautiful fish).
Apistogramma species - any would pretty much do.

Also, if you plan on keeping any apistos or the N. Transvestitus, think about doing something with your PH there. 8.0 is seriously high for any south american fish.
Some peat in your filter would do the trick nicely.

N. transvestitus, can be kept up to ph 7.5 if acclimated very very slowly to it. In the wild they come from ph levels of 6 or under,often only 4.0 ! Hardness is non-existent in their waters in the wild.
I keep mine at ph 6.5 with hardness of about 60ppm, cuz I simply cannot get it any lower no matter how hard I try.

Hope this helps ya!



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Another concern I had with the rams was that i know they like to feed off of the bottom. How big of a problem is this if i have cories? I'm really not too concerned about spawning at this point, I'm just worried about them sharing the same tank space.

Lets assume for a minute that I get say...3 bolivian rams with everything else I already listed. Could I add a small school of hatchets or would that be pushing things? My thoughts were that I didn't really have a top-water fish. Something like:
8 black neons
6 cories
6 hatchets
3 bolivian rams
3-4 platies
1 BN

It kinda sounds like a lot to me but maybe its doable...I dunno.

I looked into adding peat a little bit and I don't think I really want to turn my tank brown. So I think I'll avoid that unless someone can tell me how to leave out the brown part but keep the lowering of the pH. I don't have a gH or kH test right now so I don't have those numbers, I'll probably get one soon though. If I just add some more driftwood could that help?

Peat doesnt make my water brown at all.
Driftwood is much more likely to do that.
I think your stocking list looks fine.
As for bottom feeders - no problem.

An example, in my 75g tank, for bottom feeders alone,
I have the following fish:
3 Yoyo loaches
1 Queen Loach
1 Polka Dot Loach
9 or so Assorted Corys (5 or 6 are bronze/albino, trilineatus 2 and ambiacus 1)
1 BN Pleco
1 Inspector Pleco
1 Raphael Catfish Striped
1 Imitator Catfish
1 Rainbow Shark
1 SAE soon to be 3 again
1 Bolivian Ram (had 5)
4 Kuhli Loaches
1 Weather Loach
2 USD Cats

Noone has any trouble getting enough food.
Mind you I have a 4 tiered cave system in one corner,
tons of wood and plants for everyone to have their own niche.




Come Play Yahtzee With Me!
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I've seen several posts from people that said peat pellets made their water turn into tea...maybe its different for peat moss?

With that stocking would I be completely full or would I still have room to up the schools a little?

Could I keep 3-4 german blue rams together regardless of sex like you can with bolivians? I saw some nice ones today at one of my lfs.

Thanks for everyone's help so far!