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I'd buy 6, but they still are very $$$$ and I don't have enough room for that many (at least not yet).

Ok, I'll go with a pair for the multis. and if 9 - 12 shells is too few, what would be a better estimate? I was under the impression that you only needed 3 for each fish (and now I'm only getting 2 multis.) But, more shells would only make the tank look nicer.

And what kind of substrate should I buy? I could get sand (very $$$$), small river gravel (already have that in a tank), crushed coral, things that kinda look like pieces of rounded beach glass, or leave the large blue gravel that was orgionaly in the tank. I like the glass, but I don't know if it is too unatural for them. It kinda looks like something you might see on a beach, it's not that flashy. I'll probably keep the origional gravel to start with and add new substrate and rock structures as time goes on. Do multis/brevis like rock structures, or would I just be building it for the sake of asthetic? And, could you post some pictures of multis? In case I can't find any online.

- DJ :88)

For the first one - if it's a single brichardi, yes. Look for a female if you can.

The second - I wouldn't. Multis in packs are formidable, and a brichardi's a good-sized fish to have to find living space with them in a 20. And trust me - the multis alone will be all too much fun and distraction for you!

-Molly
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I just want to tweak this. Could I replace the compresips with a brichardi. They're cheaper and nicer looking around here. I'll add the multis first, like before, so they can spawn enough.

Also, can I have 1 brichardi and a colony of multis in a 20 gallon?

Last edited by djtj at 18-May-2005 16:49

Golden wonders are slightly aggressive, but remember we're talking about cichlids. They're no where near the aggression level of the Tangs, even gentle Tangs.

Upside-down cats are, I belive, schooling, plus they're a riverine species rather than rift lake and can't really handle the hardness and alkalinity the Tangs need. However, there are solitary Tanganyikan or Malawian Synos to be had.

The Paradise would be in danger, I'd think; it's not surface-dwelling enough. What keeps the Golden Wonders safe is that they simply never leave the top inch or two of the tank, unless they're doing it when I'm asleep. The Butterfly fish, maybe - but its fins would be pretty tempting, I'd think. Also, I'm not sure either could handle the hardness.

In any case, it's not a terrible tall tank - I don't think you'll need anything up there, if you build up the rockwork.

Multis breed EXTREMELY fast - they get going early and can have a spawn a month, per female. It'll take the fry a while to grow up but feed multiple times a day and keep the water changes up and the temperature slightly elevated and they should mature within about six months (within which time the adults will have had goodness-knows how many other fry).

-Molly
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Bump

golden wonders are nice, but I was under the impression that they were aggressive. But, if I'm going to go out of biotope, I'll shoot for something like a sydo. Are the upside-down cats (the ones that start with N, can't remember the rest) schooling fish, or could I just add one?

So far my list is:
1 comp
2 julies
too many multis to count
I have the mid and bottom ranges covered well, now I just need to take care of the top.

Since there are few tang. surface dwellers in the aqurium, I'm gona forget the biotope. I was thinking either paradise fish or a african butterfly fish. Whatever I get, it would be the last fish in the tank, so I'm not even sure if I'll get it.

Right now, I'm concerned about introducing the fish.

I'll start with the multis. But, how long should I give them to get a colony going. How fast do yours breed?

Then, I'll add the comp. Then, the julies. Finally, I might add the mystery fish.

What do you think of that idea?

You're definitely right that people will want to watch the multis all day. There are more anecdotes floating around about fish rooms where everyone bypasses the wild-caught Fronts and the stunning Discus to watch the multi colony, or 8' store tanks that are just multis, etc., it's incredible. I mean, I love them, of course, but people just adore colonies.

I'd suggest, though it's not biotypically correct, A. lineatus "Golden Wonder." It sticks very tightly to the top and is a big fish that grows fast - the combination helps it avoid maimage. However, a 30 isn't a terrifically tall tank for these guys to stay out of the way; you might want to get the other fish settled, see if you still feel you want a pair of these, buy them and grow them out a bit for safety, then add them.

-Molly
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Well, I checked out you catfish, and since they don't have them here on FP, I went searching online. I found one little bit of info that unnerved me a bit.

It is a common occurrence to not be able to see them very often if they have hiding spots.

I'm looking for an active fish, so this might not be a keeper. I guess if nigriventis won't work, I'll give up on synos. I like the whole upside-down thing, and if that won't work in my tank, then I'll try another angle.

Since I have no experience with tangs., I'm gona explain my thoughts as best as I can using examples. I'm hoping that the multis will be "neon tetra" sort of fish. Not really the main part of the tank, but interesting and little critters that add life to the tank. The alto would be my "angelfish", a big, attention-grabbing centerpiece fish. The julies would act as "rams". Not exactly centerpiece, but they do add their own qualities to the tank. What I'm looking for now is something like a gourami. I want a fish that will do good in the top 6" of the tank where none of the other fish will be usually.

I'm sorry being a bother, but with all this time, why not stir things around?
- DJ :88)

Well, there definitely are Synos from Lake Tang. but nigriventis isn't one. A better bet would be S. petricola, a petite schooling Syno.

-Molly
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Well, I might have stumbled upon a fish. How about a nice upside-down cat? I saw a profile for Synodontis nigriventris, and it looks like a perfect finishing touch. It says they come from Africa, but are they native to lake Tang.? I kinda wanted it to be a single-lake tank, but I guess it isn't that big of a deal. Becasue of my obsessive urge to fill up every level of the tank, I picked out the cat becasue its profile said "all levels".

- DJ :88)

Ah, Trets. Let me tell you, if they could be housed safely with smaller or gentler fish, I'd have one in a heartbeat. But, sadly, they're way too aggressive and territorial for the tank size and the other fish.

Howeer, I bet there's some fish that would do well. I'll look around a bit and see what I can find.

Trust me - the multis are going to be out all of the time. Other than the first few minutes of the dawn, and the middle of the night - they'll be out, out, out. I can't take a photo of any shellie tank I own without the fish in it, and the multis are the worst offenders. And while they're bottomdwellers, they'll use much more space than you'd think. Probably none of them will spend much time in the top, say, 6" of the tank, but unless the tank is at eye level that's not going to matter much at all.

Hey, time to plan is never of the bad, no worries.

-Molly
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Since before you said that a pair of alto. compressiceps was a possibility, could I get another big fish? Even if they sold calvus in my area, they grow too slow for me (70 years?!) I was browsing through the profiles when I saw one for Neolamprologus tretocephalus. I'm pretty sure they were in that tank at the store with the multis and the altos and the julies.

I thought with the 2 small julies and one 4 inch alto., I could fit another nice eye-catching center piece fish. I like the blue fins and black stripes of the tretocephalus.

The only thing I'm worried about is that the profile says "not for the commuinty tank". I dont know if they mean "community" by tetras and angels or other common fish, or community as in a specialized one like I'm putting together. Even if the newcommer eats a few fry, I don't mind because I will have a colony going by the time I buy it.

Frankly, I'm worried that the little multis are gona be hiding in their shells all the time and the other fish will be in the rocks. If you say that the julies will be out, then I believe you, but I don't want the tank to look bare with only 2 - 3 fish swimming around. In every profile it says mid to bottom level fish. I was hoping that with 4 largish fish, at least a few would be out at any given time. If the one I just brought up doesn't work out, could you suggest another fish? Or do you think I should let it alone?

Oh, and bad news, I won't be getting the 5 for at least a month. And the 30 gallon is being put off until September. But that deosn't mean I can't plan for it. Besides, it's enough that my mom actually gave the ok to get the tank. I just have to check with my friend's dad and it's mine.

Thanks for the help
-DJ :88)

The pictures before were of brevis; the picture in the last post is of multis.

Gravel's fine for multis although a thin layer of sand is still a good option. The small number of shells for a while should be OK but be onthe lookout for/planning for more.

They'll definitely swim around, though they'll take a few days to settle in. They live in the rocks, and the female julie may disappear when she has eggs, but otherwise they'll be out and about.

Multis like harems/colonies, brevis like pairs. Yup.

-Molly
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I just realized that the three pictures are all of the same species. I thought the first two were of brevis, my bad.

Do you think that the multis can go with normal aqurium gravel and 9 - 12 shells for a month or 2? If the shells are really a problem, I could always add more.

And about the julies and the alto. Are they free swimming or do they hide in the rocks? I know julies like rocks, but will the other one swim around a bit. I want at least one centerpiece fish that people will notice right away.


EDIT: Oh, and I'm mixed up about the amount for each fish. Multis like trios and brevis like pairs? or is it the other way around?
- DJ :88)

Last edited by djtj at 24-Mar-2005 11:23

I understand; a pair should work well.

The multis, however, work better in a trio. Shell estimate: as many as possible. Really. 3 or so shells per fish is a minimum; feel free to carpet the tank in a layer (or two, or three) of shells, as long as you can keep it clean underneath (a small powerhead can help with that, if you like).

They don't need rock, first; it just takes up floor space.
No need to spend much on sand - just buy "play sand" at your local hardware/garden store or "pool filter sand" at a patio furniture/aboveground pool kind of store. The multis only need a thin layer since, if they can get to it through the shell layer, they'll move it into the corners. The brevis need enough to bury shells, though they're not as obsessive about that as, say, occies are.

Multis, male above, female below - note the difference in size and shape. Also, they don't usually look half-starved but I'd just bought them when I took this:
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-Molly
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Since I seemed to run into some problems with Mawali chichlids, I decided that my new 30 gallon tank might be better suited for tangs. However, I ran into the same problem again, when I found a mixed tanganyikan chichlid tank in my LFS. Since I know absolutely NOTHING about tangs, could you post pictures of different commonly-kept tanganyikans? I'll try to get a picture of the tank in question, but I won't be visiting the LFS in question for at least a month, probably longer.

thanks
- DJ :88)

9-12 shells is very, very, very few for multis. I'm not saying it won't work, I'm just saying you should keep that in the front of your mind. You could certainly order shells and use the ones you have now until they arrive, and in fact keep them in the tank.
With multis, the more shells you have, the less aggressive they'll be and, IME, the sooner they'll breed. Plus, it's always ideal to match as closely as possible the natural conditions of the fish.
Could they breed in there? Well, they're pretty prolific; if you get close to adult fish, they may, but better to think of that as good practice and not worry so much about fry survival rate just yet.

Ideally you'd buy six to pair off. However, if you're sure on sexing them, you can buy two (they're pair fish).

Definitely no need to or point in trying to vent shelldwellers, particularly brevis.
Male brevis(note the face shape, tail stripes, larger size although that's not visible in the photo, long ventrals):


Female brevis(this is not my picture; note the smaller size, the different body shape, the shorter ventral fins, the less distinct tail stripes but most particularly: the shape of the face):



Cichlid-forum has a million brevis photos, shelldwellers has a lot, google has a few - look at enough and you'll see the real number one best identifying feature, which is the vast difference in facial shape. You might actually try tracing a couple of profiles if you're not seeing it, that should help.[/font][/font]

Last edited by LittleMousling at 24-Mar-2005 11:31

-Molly
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Although the prices for the shells are very nice($15 for a hundred!), I really don't have enough time to order online, although I might in the future. Right now, I'll buy from petland, they sell them in packs of three. I heard each fish likes 2 - 3 shells each, does that count males? Either way, 9 - 12 shells should hold me off for 2-3 small fish. And I'll move them out of there in a month or 2. I still have to get the tank from my friend. Do you think I have a chance of breeding them in a small tank?

And BTW, when I buy brevis, should I buy 2 or 3? I'm good with water changes and I have excelent filtration. I even had a common pleco and opaline gouramis in there (back in my not-so-good days) and the water was cystal clear.

For when I'm buying them, could you post pics of male or female multis/brevis. I'm still trying to remember what the fish look like in general. I do understand the oO oo thing, but if there is an easier way, I'd take it.

Thanks again
- DJ :88)

Yes, you could keep the multis in there, knowing it's not long-term. But keep a close eye on both aggression and water quality. You want as many shells as possible, basically; in the wild multis live on shellpiles that may be as much as 20 feet deep! I just found a great source of super cheap shells, for when you need more - these are a good size (slightly on the large side but mix in a few smaller turbos so females can feel secure with their fry and you're good to go), not as heavy as the turbos, and absurdely underpriced.
[link=http://www.seashellworld.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=S1700&Category_Code=Moon]http://www.seashellworld.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=S1700&Category_Code=Moon" style="COLOR: #4040FF[/link]

-Molly
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Little mousling, I'm going to my uncles this weekend and I was going to bring back my 5 gallon that is in his garage. I was planning on breeding brevis in that tank (not really planing on it, but experimenting, I know I need a bigger tank if I'm serious).

Anyway, I was gona set it up with brevis this weekend, but I started thinking. I want to start breeding multis as soon as possible, so maybe I could start in the 5 until the 30 is ready. Do you think a trio of multis will do ok in a 5 gallon for a while? If so, could I go as far as asking if they will breed? Also, I am buying hermit crab shells for tank. They are the right sizes, but I was wondering if they would mess up the water quality becasue they aren't actualy fish tank shells. The problem is they only sell tangs by him, so I need to decide what I'm doing by Saturday.

Thanks alot
-DJ :88)

I have some N. Brichardi & they are very beautiful fish. They are territorial, especially when breeding, but they take great care of the young ones. With them i also have 2 Yoyo Loaches & up to a week ago a CAE.



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