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Hello all, it has been a long time since I have been active. My Angels have been a little more active recently and now have a fairly large group of wigglers.

For the first time in their (the parents) history they have not eaten the fry after a day or so of being a wiggler. They also moved all of them from the back glass to a large sword leaf. So far they have been very attentive to the eggs, don't seem to be eating them.

Now for the bad news. They are in a community tank setup. Does anyone have any idea what I should do? The water really needs to be changed, but I don't want to stress anyone out. Also I would like to decrease the likelyhood of mortality if at all possible.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Alec

[span class="edited"][Edited by alecmacdonald 2004-07-10 13:02][/span]

Hi Alec, congrats on the wigglers. Seems you may well have a parent raising pair. Maybe consider getting a 20 gallon tank for the pair for next time.

For this time, you could leave them be and see how long they last, or siphon the fry out and raise them in another tank. In a community tank, chances are that once they freeswim, the other fish will start picking the fry off. The pair may be able to save some.

I've had kribs sucessfully raise fry in a heavily planted 90 gallon with many angels and other fish present. The longest I have seen angel fry survive in the same tank was about 8 hours post freeswim when they went over into the wet/dry prefilter. After that the deserving parenting pair was given their own tank. I figured they'd earned it.

Good info h2. I didn't think the little guys had much of a chance in a community tank. Will it stress the parents if I do a small partial water change?

Thanks again.

Alec

I don't think it will stress the parents, but as heaven2 said, get a 20 gal. for your Angels & it will be worthed.

Most small fry in a Community Tank will be eaten within minutes.



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Member of the Malta Aquarist Society - 1970.
http://www.maltaaquarist.com

I do partial WCs on the 20 gallon tank when the parents have eggs, wigglers or freeswimmers and my pair tolerate it pretty well. Mama did not trust the self starting gravel vac siphon and attacked it repeatedly, scraping her side as she hit it with her body. Papa only nipped it half heartedly. Mama is far less upset by a regular siphon which does not have that scarey black bit at the top, so I use that instead. They both will nip my hands when I change the finepore sponge filter that I slide over the filter intake strainer on the Aquaclear - this doesn't hurt, but its surprising how hard and fast they can hit.

WCs were taken in stride when they had spawns in the big tank, just had to watch that the water line did not fall below the eggs during the change.

That said, some folks report that their pairs will gobble fry if anyone even looks sideways at the tank - real spooky parents. So, I guess how your fish will react is anyone's guess.

Move slowly, esp with the siphon and you may well do fine.

I have another pair that never gets their spawn past the first night in the community tank. They hardly defend the spawn at all compared to the other pair. Speaking of which, I should have mentioned that its helpful to keep a nightlight on in the room - seems to reduce fry gobbling for many pairs, though mine were happy to sit on fry in pitch black, defending them against all comers.

My babies are doing great so far.

I thought about getting a 10g tank for them and decided a tank divider would be the best option for my situation (limited space and funding).

Has anyone else tried this or am I the first to have this crazy idea? It sounds pretty good and most importantly easy.

Thanks again for all the great info.

Alec

Hey, great to hear your angel fry are doing well!

With regards to stocking, it all depends upon how many angel fry you are trying to raise to what size. If you just wish to raise a few, the need for space is relatively minimal. If you are gonna try and raise a full spawn of 350-500 or more, thats another kettle of fish (pun intended)! You'd need significant grow out space, in the order of a hundred gallons or more.

You might wish to refer to the angelfish stocking chart rate here as a guideline or reference point:http://webrbiz.com/angelfish/stockrate.html
This is one persons recommendations. Others may stock more heavily and rely on more frequent larger WCs - many breeders actually use continuous drip WCs 7*24.

Angels need significant space and tip top water quality to achieve good growth and healthy finnage. You can keep them healthy when overstocked via copious frequent WCs but I found they will fin nip if not given sufficient physical space. A ten gallon tank would not house many angel fry for long.

Unfortunately, Mom or Dad seemed to get hungery the other day. no more babies at this time.

What I had actually done was divide my 29g tank. The Angels were down at the 1/3 of the tank they were inhabiting with the fry and the other fish were at the other. This seemed to work for a few days. Then no longer.

Thanks for your help anyway. Maybe I'll have better luck next time. This was the longest batch I've had to date.

Alec

Ah well, better luck next time. WIth luck the pair will do better and better with each attempt. Keep that divider handy as the pair may well respawn within days! Pairs may spawn as often as weekly

Best food, bar none, for angelfish fry is freshly hatched BBS. If you have no cysts on hand, now may be a good time to order. I suggest an online supplier like brineshrimpdirect.com as the price for a whole can is far less than the price for a tiny can from the LFS and the hatch rate will undoubtedly be much better as the cycts are fresh (have not been sittting on a shelf in a warm store for who knows how long) and are stored under controlled temps. I store my can in the freezer.

What sort of hatching setup is needed for bbs? Is there an easy DIY setup or do I need to purchase one?

Thanks Heaven2, you have given me tons of great info. I appreciate it.

Alec

As mentioned already, get a 10+ gal w/o substrate ready as well as a brine shrimp hatchery. It seems you have some nervous parents. If you plan on keeping the parents with the fry, it'd be advisable to leave them alone for a few days. IME, angels are generally good parents once the fry start free swimming.

[span class="edited"][Edited by Klee 2004-07-14 20:21][/span]

A DIY BBS hatchery is very easy to set up with bits you no doubt already have around the house. No need to buy anything special.

My hatchery is a 2l pop bottle, with the bottom cut off but the cap left on, inverted, set in a heavy gardeniere for stability, with a length of rigid airline at the end of the airhose powered by a tiny airpump, enough to keep the cysts constantly in motion (no airstone). I loosely cover the top with saran wrap to minimize potential salt splash on the counter or light bulb. A gooseneck lamp sits about 5 inches from the hatchery providing light and warmth. I harvest after 18-24 hours and cold store the BBS in brine in the fridge, in a plastic container with a hole cut in the lid so they don;t suffocate, for up to 24 hours. After I harvest, I wash the bottle out with hot tap water and restart with fresh brine and cysts. Any BBS not fed after 24 hours, I rinse with fresh water and freeze into a mini "cookie" for later use.

I'll refer you to Johnny's excellent site for detailed info - he's done a fantastic job of explaining and has tons of photos (galleries) of different folk's BBS hatcheries. Just scroll down to Brine Shrimp on the left hand side... http://webrbiz.com/angelfish/amh.html

Also, for more great angelfish info, check out http://www.geocities.com/river_angels/angellinks.html]http://www.geocities.com/river_angels/angellinks.html[/link]. The link for Touched By Angels is old and doesn't work - here's a working link: [link=http://www.finarama.com/tba/

[span class="edited"][Edited by 2004-07-14 23:58][/span]