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I read these fish can get up to 16 inches wide.....??

ok...think I have it! Thanks!!

Sexing angels, see the picture above of the two angels?
The one in the front is very clearly a Male.
The one in the back is a female.
Looking at the male fish, a couple things
are useful in sexing.
The nuchal hump on the head of the male.
This male has quite a large one, not all males
grow this large a hump, but usually males have a much
more ounced forehead area.
Also, note the area between the pectoral and anal fin.
See how straight it is? Almost horizontal? Sure fire sign of a male. Females, in this area, are much more sloped, sloping down from pectorals towards the anal fin on a nice angle.
In small angels, it can be very very hard to determine gender. In my breeding efforts, I have come able to determine gender in young fry of only 8-12 weeks.
I like Koi angels myself, and have 3, mom, dad, and a baby I kept from one batch of fry.
Heres piccies:




Heres the Female Angel "Sneaky Pete", note her lack of nuchal hump, and the very dramatic sloping of the area between pectoral and anal fins:



Heres my Male Angel "Sid Vicious", note the much less sloped area, as well as his slight nuchal hump. He is also quite young still, both my pair are, maybe 3-4 years old.



Rosy, my Baby Koi angel from my first successful batch of fry, she had 32 brothers and sisters, of which 5 survived to maturity, not bad I think for my first time being an angelfish mommy you can again see the sloping area.

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It'll work fine. If not breeding, oto or BN does not matter, although I'd say one BN cleaned more algae in my 10 then 4 otos.

The Amazon Nut...

How do you sex angels?

Sometimes I dont really trust what my LFS tells me. You never know if they are telling you the truth ir just trying to sell fish.

The 29 will have lots of green rainbow rock which has lots of flat places. It will also have an amazon sword plant as well as other plants. See my post about plants in the plant section.

Breeding them is not something Im interested in right now. Im just focusing on getting these tanks set up and cycled as well as decorated like I want.

I guess I will go and look and buy some after the tank is cycled and I find some like I like.

Thanks for the link. I will read it.

Do I need ottos or is the bristlenose enough??

I am going to put the 2 cories in there as well as the 2 paradise fish. Hope this will work.

"Awwww!! See that is why I want the fish I want. Because of things like that! I dont want to have fish that swim around and have no personality."

Well, I've owned this pair about 2 months guessing ?
And immediately I was very happy that I got this pair.
Angelfish are very interesting to watch and like most cichlids, it seems they have intelligence, and personality, reminding me somewhat of the oscars I used to love keeping, but requiring alot less room !
They've laid eggs 3 times in the community tank and I'm hoping to eventually breed them... I need a larger place and more room, a fishroom haha... They are also little pigs and love to eat.

"So Fish man. 1-Would you just get two angels then?"

Eventually yes. Your 29 is perfect for a small juvenile group of angels. Once they grow to a certain size, you will get a pairing off, or 2 !!! As they pair off, get the pair into their own tank.. Once no more pairing off occurs, sell or give away the ones that did not pair, and keep your best looking pair in the 29. Stick a piece of thin slate (the smoother the better) almost upright but leaning against the glass, the slate should be at least 12 inch high and about 4 inches wide. Or, have some fairly large swordplants in there, the eggs may get laid right on the leaves. Before I had slate, mine laid eggs right on the tank glass, and I've heard of them being laid on the heater. Slate or plant is preferred.

I would not add other fish if breeding is the route you wish to try. Except possibly some otos if a planted tank... If's possible for a spawning in a community tank as a few here have had happen, but, I'd say better chances without tankmates that may eat the eggs.

Once spawnings occur, you will need grow out tanks for sure. at least 29 gallons and a few of them. You may end up with a fishroom lol..

"How young should they be?" - doesn't matter too much but juveniles.. With larger juvies, your wait time for pairing will be less..

Definately get them from someone that breeds them, you may get LOTS of tips there, better then what I can tell you.. I've researched it alot, but it's not yet firsthand knowledge.. Hatching baby brine shrimp etc is a skill I'll need to pick up should I get some wigglers... That's a whole new ballpark for me.. A challenge though !

I have marble veil-tail angels, silver veils are also nice... RESEARCH the varieties then pick your favorite.
Here's a link which may be helpful !
http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/PPT/Ecology/angelfish_behavior.htm

I just hope they will do ok with my paradise fish. My LFS told me they would be fine with anything. They may be young, Im not sure. I think they are about 2 inches from tip to tip. They do fine with my cories and pleco. There have been other fish with them and theyve never been aggressive.

"Do I need to make sure the 29 is fully cycled before adding the angels." - Of course, as with any tank, before you add fish. Fishless Cycling is what is encouraged now, the old way is to use danios or guppys.. I seed a filter in an established tank for a month, then move it over.. If you're wanting the eggs to hatch in the tank to let the parents try parenting the fry (you will REALLY find that rewarding) use a sponge filter.

"About the leaking tank. I have no idea where it is leaking from. Thats the problem." - might take some time
and careful observation, also putting cardboard under the tank to see where it's wet first etc.. Is the sides of the tank wet at all ? Check along all the seams, it there somewhere. Inspect the condition of the silicone seal inside, you may find a damaged spot or weak spot. If all else fails, you could use water, and a bit of food coloring. Bare 10g tanks are cheap, you may find it less hassle to just replace it.

Let us know what you decide and good luck

Pic of my angels for ya.



Last edited by DaFishMan at 29-Nov-2005 18:59[/font]

The Amazon Nut...

I have a breeding pair and they do everything together

Awwww!! See that is why I want the fish I want. Because of things like that! I dont want to have fish that swim around and have no personality. I know all fish are differnt and some may have personality and some dont. My cherries I had were funny to watch but some other people may find them boring. My guppies always come to the tank when they see me but thats because they are lil pigs and want to eat!!!

So Fish man. 1-Would you just get two angels then?

The lady who owns one of my LFS raises them. I could get them as small as I want Im sure.
2-How young should they be?

Ive read about the different color and that blushing angels are the least hardy. I have no idea what kind I can get here.

3-What kind would you or anyone else suggest? I know Ill wind up getting them.

I just hope they will do ok with my paradise fish. My LFS told me they would be fine with anything. They may be young, Im not sure. I think they are about 2 inches from tip to tip. They do fine with my cories and pleco. There have been other fish with them and theyve never been aggressive.

4-Do I need to make sure the 29 is fully cycled before adding the angels.

Its still not even set up on its stand yet. I am waiting for it in the mail.
About the leaking tank. I have no idea where it is leaking from. Thats the problem. I am getting ready to tear it down and put the stuff in another empty 10 I have. UGH!!!

Interesting points on the angels LadyJL. I've just gotten these fish recently, and still learning about them. My stepad kept a group of them with of silver dollars in a 120 for quite some time... His fish grow huge.

I have a breeding pair and they do everything together, but have their little spats here and there. I was lucky to be able to buy a young breeding pair though...

I can understand you on your frustration re the tank leak. Believe me.. My 40 planted had a pin leak, was set up over 2 months before I gave in and decided to tear down for repair, my friend patched it with silicone. 2 days later, I had to fix his rush patch job with crazy glue.. Also found a 10 gal tank which had a circular crack, fixed it with crazyglue.. Depending on where the crack is, you might be able to save the tank.
I've been tempted to quit a few times during frustrating moments myself. I remember asking myself, why do I do this ? lol..

Hang in there !




The Amazon Nut...

I think I have decided to just put angels and a pleco in this 29 tank. Is two better or three? I cant remember where/what I read about that.

Ok heres what I read..

Compatibility. Either one Angel to an aquarium or more than 3. Angels are Cichlids and like most Cichlids, if you keep just 2 or 3 in the same aquarium, the strongest one will make the others miserable.

I read this at
http://www.fishprofiles.com/interactive/forums/post.asp?action=edit&threadID=66620&page=&postID=200511282227815658

Here I read that 3 angels and a betta was fine in just 20 gallons!!!
http://www.solodvds.com/beginner/fish_calculator.asp


So, I sat up the other 10 tonight and the tank is leaking. I am soooooooooo frustrated right now. Im feeling like I just want to quit. So, Ill just put my 2 paradise, 1 pleco, 2 cories, and my fem betta in the 29 tank. I may try one angel and see how it does. I dont think Ill have a problem w the paradise and one angel but the betta can be mean. maybe shell do better in a big tank

Last edited by ladiejl at 29-Nov-2005 03:27

Last edited by ladiejl at 29-Nov-2005 03:28

Fry growout tank for the Kribs

You will get LOTS.

The Amazon Nut...

I havent done wnything w the cories. They are still here. I havent even put water in this tank yet. Still setting it up. Im just having hard time deciding what to do. Ive redone three 10 gallons this week, My problem is all the fish I like/have/want are territorial/aggressive fish. They arent community. Like bettas, paradise, american flag, angels, kribs, dwarf puffers.

Im going w a pair of kribs in one 10 and 2-3 dwarf puffers in another 10.

I am putting my bettas in a 10 divided.

That leaves me w just the 29 for all the other fish I want. Since they are territorial, that leave me having to pick just one...
Unless someone has a better idea????

Hi There,
the average adult angelfishes body size is about 6-8 inches from snout tip to base of tail.
However, these fish grow very tall, and can grow to be as much as 14-16 inches tall from top of dorsal fin to bottom of anal fin.

So you have this stock mentioned:
2 angels
4 cherry barbs
1 BN Pleco

What about the 3 corys you had in the first post?
What did you do with them?
If you are planning to keep the corys,
then go with this:
2 Angels
4 Cherry Barbs (remember these fish dont stay as small as they look in the stores, I have seen adult cherrys at 2 maybe as much as 2.5 inches! :-o )
6 Albino Corys
1 BN Pleco
That would be pushing the stocking a bit, but would be best for all the fish involved.


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The Amazon Nut...

I want to get an angel fish or maybe 2 for my 29.

In this tank I plan on putting 3 albino cories, 2 female paradise (these 2 fish seem to be pretty unaggressive), 5 or 6 cherry barbs and maybe white clouds, gouramis or bloodfins.

I understand that some angels can be aggressive.
What do you think and what can you tell me about these fish?

2 Angels.
1 BN.
4 Cherry Barbs.
6 Corydoras.


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"two angels, 1 pleco and 4 cherry barbs"

Make the pleco a Bristlenose Pleco. Add a couple cories


Last edited by DaFishMan at 28-Nov-2005 08:43

The Amazon Nut...

ok....so what about one angel, 1 pleco, 4 cherry barbs
or
two angels, 1 pleco and 4 cherry barbs
or
one angel, 1 pleco, 4 cherry barbs and a school of tetras

"I am aware of how big the pleco gets. I can swap them out at my LFS when he gets bigger than what I want.
I can also swap the cories out when they get to big."

As I mentioned in my previous post, a BN pleco (Bristlenose) will not outgrow the tank, so no worries, you would not have to swap it out..

I want to make this point, and it's stunningly simple.
Stock it right the first time, and you won't have to swap fish out later on.

You brought up an interesting topic...

Pets are not disposable, and the practice of people disposing of their pets at the LFS when they are no longer needed is IMMORAL.

Enjoy your Angels.

Peace,
DaFish





Last edited by DaFishMan at 28-Nov-2005 00:54

The Amazon Nut...

"Regular plecos grow over a foot in length."

I am aware of how big the pleco gets. I can swap them out at my LFS when he gets bigger than what I want.
I can also swap the cories out when they get to big.

"I suggest doing further research on the space each fish requires before you just say you're throwing them in."

I have done research on the angel fish, thats why I said one or MAYBE two. I havent and wont just "throw any fish in". I am on here asking questions about this before I put any fish in.