FishProfiles.com Message Forums

So how do you suggest I change my list? Is something like this appropriate?

4 apistos
3 ottos
6 hatchets
6 neons

If this makes any difference, I'm going to really overfilter this sucker too. I already have a whisper mini in there and I'm picking up an aquaclear tomorrow. I'm probably getting a 30 or 50 depending on price.

What I don't get though, is that you said I can not plant too much, but then you said earlier that I should divide my tank with a big plant.

lol thats my bad, I forgot that plants don't do good in sand and wasn't thinking about it when i first posted.

Apistogramma borellii are supposed to be kept in 1:3 male to female ratios to cut down on agression. The females are not going to turn on the males. Males can be quite violent sometimes so you would not want a bunch of males fighting for territory in a 20 gallon. and actually, belevie it or not, a lot of male apistogramma borellii will sometimes hang around with 4 females at a time, so actually they are quite fine forming a 2 male colony.

It would be ok to sprinkle play sand over the gravel, that would be fine and the borellii would appreciate the sand.

Rinse the sand well. Rinse rinse rinse rinse rinse.

Did I mention rinse the sand well?

Ok, tetras are no different than hatchetfish as dithers. So chose either hatchets or neons/cardinals. Not both as it would take away from the only 4 borelli, though I still think 8 is perfectly fine.

I say stick with this sotcking...

8 apistogramma borellii
6 hatchetfish
3 otos.

There is no reason you should not be able to have a 2:6 ratio with borelli in a 20 gallon tank, it is fine to have that ratio and it should not and probably will not cause problems.

In fact, this next quote is taken directly form the Fish Profiles profile of this fish.

Use an acidic pH (6.0-6.2) and a higher temperature of up to 28°C. The eggs are laid on the roof of a cave or an upturned pot. The female carefully guards the fry but sometimes lacks security with the eggs. Use a ratio of one male to three or four females.

It is even recommended to have that kind of ratio, and in a 20 gallon I see no reason why you can have 2 breeding groups instead of just 1.

Ok, tetras are no different than hatchetfish as dithers. So chose either hatchets or neons/cardinals. Not both as it would take away from the only 4 borelli, though I still think 8 is perfectly fine.

I only considered tetras because cup suggested it. I personally dislike the little buggers. I like fish with brains, namely chichlids.

it would be ok to sprinkle play sand over the gravel, that would be fine and the borellii would appreciate the sand.

What do you mean by sprinkle? I was going to replace ½ of my gravel and add a whole buntch of sand. Or could I just add a little sand? I have a bag of estes' in the closet. Would that work?

By sprinkle I meant you could add sand to the gravel bed...I think I should chose my words more carefully with you

The females are not going to turn on the males. Males can be quite violent sometimes so you would not want a bunch of males fighting for territory in a 20 gallon. and actually, belevie it or not, a lot of male apistogramma borellii will sometimes hang around with 4 females at a time, so actually they are quite fine forming a 2 male colony.



Have you kept an apisto species before? Females will attack each other and their mate should space be confined. In a twenty long, more likely than not, two colonies will not form; rather, one male will be chased and bullied.

Did you even refer to the quote form the profiles?

In fact I HAVE kept an apisto species before and have not had this problem.

"Did you even refer to the quote form the profiles?"
The profiles also once said that most apisto species only grew to around 1.5" .

"In fact I HAVE kept an apisto species before and have not had this problem."
It is well established that females will chase and occassionally kill both sub dominant and dominant suitors (not to mention each other and vice versa). Which ones? Have they ever spawned? How large were they? What size aquarium? When did you purchase them?

I have kept both cacs (a pair) and agassizii (male and four females, one which died as a result of inter specific abuse), the latter for about 6 months and the former for about one (holding for a customer). The latter produced two small broods of fry (promptly rescued), but they were already reputable breeders, so that was no issue. They were both kept in a 75 gallon with one watermelon royal, parancistrus, panaqolus, congos, and cardinals. The ags were promptly moved to a 29 tall after their first spawn, which turned out badly, as aggression killed one of the females and left the male badly tattered (this tank held only them and several centromulchus perugiae. Prior to that, I had read up much on apistos and came to understand that female aggression was quite vicious in many species. I suppose I found out the hard way. I got rid of the cacs when they were picked up and the aggs when I purchased my first pair of L-262.





Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 05-Aug-2005 09:37

My old 20 long, they were borellii, never spawned, but did not seem to bother each other.

What do you mean you don't recall me ever having apisto's? Have I ever said I have never kept them before?

I have kept borelli, but only for a short time, I was holding them for someone else at the time, I had them for about a month and then he took them back to put them in a display tank in the store. After that I made it a guppy tank (boy do I regret getting those guppies). They were about 2 inches at the time I was holding them.

So yes, I have kept them. Not as my own, but they were perfectly healthy for the month I kept them. They did not spawn because I had too high a pH (7.4 at the time).
They did not attack the other male.

djtj, really it is your decision on who you take the advice from, I'm not letting go of my theory so if you think Cups is right, by all means take his advice.


Last edited by Tetra Fan at 04-Aug-2005 16:05

pH is no issue for hardier apistos such as borelli, panduro, ags, etc. My pH nears 8 and is very hard, and yet it yielded two spawns. Cacs are supposedly more intolerant than other. By the way, aggression is most often displayed during spawning or conditioning. Hey, if you want topay for 8 specimens, go right ahead, but heed my warning, they are not "cheap" fish, and I would hate to lose any of them. Then again, it's up to you. I am not jumping on your back because of something as silly as a grudge, but rather that, if we are to help dj set up a tank, then at least one would think that we have the obligation to provide him with correct information. Considering your fish were not mature at the time nor were they inclined to spawn, the specs you have provided are somewhat inaccurate.

DJ, what you do is up to you. It's your tank. I am only advising you with the best of my knowledge, which may or may not be sufficient.





Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 04-Aug-2005 16:22

Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 05-Aug-2005 09:35

djtj, really it is your decision on who you take the advice from, I'm not letting go of my theory so if you think Cups is right, by all means take his advice.

Don't worry, I've dealt with cup before. We're always going at it about stuff. Stingrays, birds, you name it. In fact they even closed the bird post because of us and Dave. Unfortunately though, he has a knack for being right (Cup, I'm never going to admit that to you again )

Anyway, I'm really itching to go down to the store and actually see these guys in person. I want to watch them for a bit before I make up my mind. I know far too little about these fish to take anyone's side here.

But I have to say, really did enjoy reading you guys go at it. Even though your points fell on deaf ears towards each other, I certainly heard them.

EDIT:
I've realized that I really didn't give cup a chance to give me a stocking list. Tetra's list is the one I've been using so far. I'm not saying I'm going to change it, but I was wondering what cup would do to it.

Last edited by djtj at 04-Aug-2005 16:22