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I recently added a second Bolivian Ram which I'm almost 100% certain is a male because of his longer dorsal rays and he has extensions on his caudal fin. I thought my original Ram was a female, but based on their behavior, I'm not sure. When I first added the new Ram, the original one chased the second one for a day. Then the roles reversed. The new one chased the original one around the tank every once in a while. Now, neither one is really doing any chasing. They just confront each other when they get close, flare their gils and fins, wag their body and usually gently bite at each other. Now, I'm no expert on fish behavior, but this type of behavior doesn't seem like male/female courtship. I'm looking for some input experiences with trying to match up Rams.

Extensions on caudal fin doesn't indicate that it's a male, as I found out a few days ago (see http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Cichlid%20Central/63375.html?200508240739). My female has extensions her caudal fin and nice pointy dorsal fin. I think a pinkish belly is a better indicator for (mature) females; my breeding female definitely has noticeable pink spot on her belly while the male one doesn't.

-P

Reno,
the behaviour your describing is very much
common between bolivian rams. I have seen 2 males
do this, 2 females, and male/females too.
Sometimes it is a prelude to breeding, as often
Males will try to convince females they are
good enough and sometimes can be very pushy.
Rams are very dynamic social fish, and these squabbles
are perfectly normal as the fish attempt to develop
a heirarchy.
Are you trying to breed them? what size tank do you have them in?


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Sneaky,

I've got them in a 29g, and yes, I would like them to pair up and breed. based on the input, I guess it's just hit and miss or luck in finding a male/female pair since it's so hard to tell them apart. Maybe I'll take a trip back to my LFS and see if I can find any that show the pink belly coloring. Otherwise, I'll just have to wait it out and see what happens.

Reno,
I originally had a single ram I had identified
as male by the 3 inch mark.
I got given another ram from my sister (her kribs
had killed her other 3 rams)
I thought this one was a less dominant male (like alpha male - betta male type thing), thought this for over a year.
I then went out and got 3 more Rams, trying to get ones
that looked the Most Different from my big male.
It was only about 3 weeks after I got the new rams, that the less dominant male actually proved itself to be a female. The two original rams never showed any interest in each other beyond an occassional squabble, until other females arrived. Since then, my large older female (the one I thought was male) has spawned with my big male 3 times!
I think if you want to get a pair, like you said it is hit and miss, you could have a female and a male, but they may not be interested in each other. Your best bet would be to get 2-3 more of them, and then see if any pair off, and return the rest. Rams will also sometimes Harem Breed, meaning one dominant male may have several females he breeds with (my male has 3 females he spawns with regularly), so this may be an option for you as well, as opposed to a pair!
Good Luck!
p.s. If you would like me to post comparison pictures of my dominant male and female, let me know and I will stick em on here for you.


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Sneaky,

Sure, I would love to see the pictures of your Rams. I'd like to see as many pictures as I can of known males and females so it hopefully gets easier for me to tell the difference.

Getting a couple more was exactly what I was thinking of doing, but I'm going to wait a while and see how these two mature. My LFS gets Bolivians in pretty regularly, so I can add more at almost any time.

Thanks!

i used to have a male and female (never paired up though) and as i was moving them to the 20 gallon for a pairing and breeding tank, everything went as planned, untill a few hours i was left with 1 dead male ram 1 dead male cherry barb and like 4 dead corys:#( i am waiting till the best time to get my female another male, im gunna buy up a bunch, add them to the 29 gallon, after a few pair up, 1 pair will be off to the breeding 20 gallon, 1 will stay in the 29, and if i get another pair, they will go to another breeing tank....but, im afarid to add a bunch of rams to the 29, do u htink they could hurt eachother?