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Everywhere. Cichlid specific sites, books, even here!

Quote me specific links that state that Labs and other Mbuna don't light bright light, and that white colored sand appreciably contributes to this. Also, what is the threshold here? If Mbuna were so notoriously photo-sensitive, I would think there would be rampant discussions of light WPG for Mbuna tanks.

I have never, ever, seen anything of this nature written here or on http://www.cichlid-forum.com, and tons of people on that site use aragonite sand in their tanks. Tons.


[span class="edited"][Edited by EdgarFanCLS 2004-07-01 14:11][/span]

the 3m stuff comes up online everyonce in a while, it seems that nobody except for a very small % of people actaully get it or know where to get it. not sure of the quality of it for cichlids

Yeah, that seems to be the case. I went searching today for some old threads on it and people seemed to have trouble getting it. Something about having to go to regional 3M distribution centers...

So what's the definition of bright? 1wpg? 2wpg? 3? "Bright" is an ambiguous term.

One thing to note though - a book does not equal the supreme law of cichlids. Often the so-called "experts" who write books give a lot of their opinions, which may or may not be correct.

I do not believe that mbuna would suffer any more sensitivity to light than any other common aquarium fish. If there were some threshold that equals a painful amount of light for a Lab, then it's probably irritating to a lot of other fish as well.

I can find a place where it says Mbuna don't like bright lights- my latest library addition. It's a book about Cichlids, published by Barron's.

You can use Eco-Complete sand as a substrate. It's like a 70/30 mixture of Tahitian Moon sand and Aragonite gravel, with the sand being 70% and the aragonite being 30%. It is packed in water stuff and apparently has live ammonia-killin bacteria in it.

the 3m stuff comes up online everyonce in a while, it seems that nobody except for a very small % of people actaully get it or know where to get it. not sure of the quality of it for cichlids.
there is a cichlid sand mix made by the makers of aragamax that is darker, but only by mixing araganite with dark sand. the result looks like someone threw some salt in the pepper shaker. i think it looks poor, myself.

good black sand is called tahitian moon sand

I seem to remember some commercial black-colored sands out there that some of the rift lake keepers were experimenting with. The name escapes me at the moment, but I thought at least one of them was made by 3M... colored quartz?? Another name that seems to stick out in my mind is black beauty, although I don't know if that is the same stuff as the 3M product or something different.

[span class="edited"][Edited by EdgarFanCLS 2004-07-06 08:41][/span]

there is another site here it ishttp://www.malawimayhem.com

the dark sand will cut down on the glare from the lights and create a more subdued, natural look. the fish will seem less washed out. their colors will pop out. that part is true. i like the white sand because it buffers the water.
a good black sand is called tahitian moon sand. it does not buffer water.

One more question:

If I want to have dark sand, what kind would you recommend and where can I buy it?

Thanks for everyone's help!!!!

I've definitely read discussions of the preference of darker substrates for varying reasons - they like the look, it brings out the color of the fish, etc. This is aesthetic and personal preference though.
Personally I like the look of the white sand, which is why I use it. That and the fact that it helps buffer the water to a higher pH.

[span class="edited"][Edited by EdgarFanCLS 2004-07-01 15:01][/span]

How does black sand make the fish look better?

its more of an issue of fish owners like darker substrates. i will not deny that black sand makes the colors of the fish "better", i just like my white aragonite sand. i cant see how the fish would care. i have heard in multiple places though, that there are a few fish out there (not sure which ones) that are too spooked by lighter substrates or bare tank bottoms. i have not heard this about cichlids. so i dont know where his info comes from.

Aquaman,

My Electric Yellows love frozen peas (thawed of course) I also feed them floating cichlid pellets. I have granite rocks that I found on the side of the road and washed in one tank and river rocks that I got at a landscape place for $1 each. I got some malaysian diftwood that is holey and they love hiding in there too.

Good luck...they are nice fish to have.

Futhermore - if this were an issue with white colored sand and Mbuna, which it's not... Could you tell me why my fish are absolutely, 100% fine? If they were bothered by the terrible terrible reflective light, then I would think their behavior would be quite abnormal, don't you?

I am starting over with my 55 gallon aquarium. I am really interested in keeping Electric Yellows in it. I figured a group of 6 to 8 would be almost perfect. I just have a couple of questions about them.

1. How important is sand as a substrate? Right now I have gravel. Should I replace it?
2. What do you feed your Electric Yellows?
3. Where do you get rocks to put into your aquarium for decoration & hiding spots? What kind do you use?

Any other tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks for all of your help!!

* My pH is at 7.4 and the temp is about 77-78 degrees. *

Everywhere. Cichlid specific sites, books, even here!

Why I reccomend black sand (i.e. Tahitian moon sand) on top of the aragonite is because Mbuna don't like bright lights. The aragonite reflects the light and the Labs don't like it.

Where are you getting this info? My labs do not have a problem with my white sand - they act perfectly normal, as do my acei.

1. How do you rinse it before you put it in the tank? (what method do you use?)

That is why I reccomend Eco-Complete sand. It is packed in a liquid thingy that contains ammonia-neutralizing bacteria. No washing, plus it makes cycling easier.

Edgar: Why I reccomend black sand (i.e. Tahitian moon sand) on top of the aragonite is because Mbuna don't like bright lights. The aragonite reflects the light and the Labs don't like it. Even if the Labs do mess it up, the black will help. Besides, it makes the fish look nicer.

1 - Sand can be rinsed by putting small amounts into a bucket, filling the bucket with water, and then vigorously swishing the sand around. You'll see the water go very murky. Dump off dirty water, leaving the sand in the bucket, and repeat this process until the water remains clear when you swish the sand around. The brown playsand rinses a lot easier than the white, caribbean play sand - that stuff took forever to clean.

2 - One 50lb bag of home depot play sand should be sufficient for a 55. It's cheap though - like $2-$3 per 50lb bag of the brown play sand, $5-6 for a 50lb bag of the carribean sand.

3 - The only time I ever removed sand from one of my tanks was after it was completely drained. Removing it with water in the tank would be difficult I would think...then again, I've never tried.

4 - Once the sand is rinsed, you are left with the large sandy particules and won't make it muddy.
Here's some pictures of the two sands I've mentioned. The first one is my old 29G (no longer in operation) with the regular brown playsand. The second is my 75G with the white, caribbean playsand.

[img]
http://www.fishprofiles.net/files/~edgarfancls/pics/75G/75G.jpg[/img][/font][/font]

[span class="edited"][Edited by EdgarFanCLS 2004-07-01 12:39][/span]

I have just a couple more questions about sand:

1. How do you rinse it before you put it in the tank? (what method do you use?)

2. How much should I buy? (4 ft, 55 gallon tank)

3. If I ever decide to go back to gravel, how do you remove all of the sand?

4. How do you add the sand to the aquarium without making mud?

Thanks for all of your help!!

[span class="edited"][Edited by 2004-07-01 11:48][/span]