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I've got two fully grown Jack Dempseys. They have both had babies several times but have failed most of the time or I've taken the eggs out because I don't have anything to do with the babies. I noticed injuries on the mouths of the two fish and I assumed that they were from moving the rocks around the tank trying to make spot for the babies to hide in. I soon noticed that they were actually attacking each other face to face like two males would. They are biting each others jaws and holding on in a violent manner. I thought that only two apposing males would do this but would a male and a female who are currently spawning also do this?

No,

couples also practice this behavior. It can get pretty rough sometimes, this is also a reason that pairs of fish who are known to do so should be of similar size to prevent serios injuries to the smaller one.

At this point you just need to keep a close eye on them just to make sure no one is getting hurt. Hopefully they will be o.k., but they are an aggresive fish.

A few questions though, what size is the tank and are there any hiding places so the weaker fish can got out of harms way.

chris

Jack Dempseys? My Angelfish breeding pair attacked each other viciously in their first few spawns. In one instance the (smaller) female was beaten up so badly that her eyes were bleeding and clouded up for a couple of days.

Fortunately, after a number of spawns, they seem to have settled into their roles. The male will clean and fan the eggs, while the female will guard the perimeter. Once the frys start swimming, the female is allowed to help catching them back to the spawn site.

Its just two Dempseys. 1 Male and 1 female. Nothing else is going to get hurt. I am completely aware that my tank is too small but its a ten gallon, and yes they have hiding spots.

Whoa. You said two fully grown Jack Dempseys?? How can two 10" fish have any room to live or even hide in a 10g? I'm completely confused here.

The pottery that growls!

What I mean buy fully grown is that they have stopped growing. They have not reached 10" the male is 6" and the female is just over 5".

So that means they're already getting stunted? yikes. That still seems big for a 10g... I'm not surprised they're fighting at all, even if they got along before.

The pottery that growls!

Yeah, yeah. "they are all ready stunted. yikes" Ok, so they might be small just because they are in a small tank. Well, I've had these fish for only a year or so and my mother won't let me get another tank. I've gotten very attached to them. They aren't "mutated" or "suffering" they have vibrant colors (better colors than I've seen on the pictures of some peoples Dempseys). They have great body shape, they aren't slender or fat like some pictures I've seen on here. Their scale cooler (not the iridescence) is not pale or light its dark and rich. They might not be able to swim a marathon around the tank but Jack Dempseys, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't incredibly active. I'm not saying they need no room, but all the Dempseys I've seen that are mature, don't swim around and around mindlessly like other fish. They tend to chill and hide in places. Also, my Demspeys aren't unhappy, to my knowledge, they chase each other around and have had babies at least ten times and they've grown up together. Since I got them out of Petco (which along with Petsmart have the worst environments I've ever seen) and when I think its bad, then its horrible to most peoples standards. I would love to get them a larger tank but I can't get a larger one and I don't want to send them back to that horrible place let alone part with them. In your eyes you think I'm abusing them but I think its not as bad as it seems. In the end though, they are my pride and joy. I could brag about how much better they look then other people's all day.

They also, have never been diseased. Their tank is not disgusting although it has "wispy" green algae growth. But to my knowledge, green algae growth is a sign of healthy water. Is it not?

Soidfuf

Please read this profile about Jack Dempsies

http://www.cichlids.com/wiki/index.php/Cichlasoma_octofasciatum

They require a minimum of 30 Gallons for those fish. Im sorry but you will have to return them to the LFS. I wouldnt return them to Petsmart or Petco, but look in your locak Yellow Pages for petshops. They will be able to take them.

10 Gallon tanks are really meant for small fish like tetras, barbs, Shrimps. Small shoal of Cories. But you are limited. Im sorry to say but they are probably arguing because they dont have the room to swim around.

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

10 G for two Jacks, yikes, indeed. Now, getting a 20 G long would already be a big improvement and might suffice at least for a while given the fact that they are stunted in growth. A tank of this size is , what? About $20 and you could close down the 10 G if your mother is against 'another' tank.

Maybe you should explain to your parents about how wrong it is for them to live in a 10g. Save up to get them something bigger. You may be proud of them, but they're the ones that suffer. Just because they look good right now doesn't mean they're healthy or happy. They're even fighting now because they don't have space. Do you care more about the happiness of your fish or your pride? Taking them back to Petco or Petsmart may not be a good idea, but check for a local fish store or even look online for ads for used tanks. You can get really good deals sometimes! I just got a 20g with stand, hood, filter, and heater for $20 through craigslist. Keep your options open. Trading in the 10g for a 20g would maybe be a good idea since then you still only have one tank. Try it out. Talk to your parents about it. You should do some research on water quality and stunted growth and if you can convince them in a mature and rational manner that it is necessary, maybe they'll give in. You can even help cover the cost of the 20g by trying to sell your 10g. What do you have to lose? Think of what your fish have to gain!

The pottery that growls!

Wow, I feel bad for keeping my 8" green terror in my 125.


chris

Also, still a bad idea about moving them to a 20. One of those fish don't belong in a 20 gallon. My suggestion is to trade them in to you LFS, not chain store, and get fish the are right for the size tank you have. If you still want to go the cichlid route may I suggest a pair of kribs, they breed easily and are very good parents. You can also look at some of the other dwarf cichlids or mabey some shellies from Lake Tanganyika.

I do find it very hard to beleive thay one could cram two giant fish like that into a 10g. I just don't see it. Mabey you could post some pics of the tank and the cave you are using.


chris

Soidfuf:
a wise man once said that it is easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission. If your parents come home one day and find a 55g with happy JDs in it they are less likely to complain. Also, mention the possibility that they could breed in that sized tank

Just poking my nose in to confirm. Dempseys should really be in a 55 minimum for truly humane care. Make it happen or give them up, no matter how well you care for them its still fish abuse to keep dempseys in small aquaria. Its like keeping a dog in a shed and never letting it out or keeping a cat in a box. They will kill each other eventually. Parents either act responsibly or get to shut up. Being parents doesnt mean they get to espouse fish abuse and you can tell them that from me. Either the fish go back to the shop, or the new tank is allowed to happen. That is parental responsibility, irrelevant of their feelings on the matter.

My personal feeling is that the fish other than the size of the tank are well looked after and that it would be a shame to see you parted from them, especially as you had the wit to post about them and try to improve their care.Kids should have hobbies, this particular hobby can increase your knowledge of the natural world, and open your eyes to many things. Parents are often a little blind when it comes to fish, and maybe a little wake up call is needed.If money isnt the issue, then a new tank should be on the way.

Would I tell a parent what to do in this situation?

Yeah, every time and take all the flack coming to me with grace in the complete confidance of my being absolutely right. Show em the post kid.

and good luck!

I feel your pain about the small tank. When I was younger my cichlid hobby started with a convict in a two gallon. Every week or so I'd go behind my parents back and upgrade the tank. Now I to have a beautiful 7 inch JD in a 55 along with my original convict and oter cichlids. Though my parents always got pissed, they never really did anything. I'm running 4 tanks in my house (much to my parents displeasure), but its impossible to stay mad when the health of a stunning quality JD is at stake.

Hehe you can always lay down some guilt (big tears in eyes) "mommy are you asking me to kill my pet?"

Guilt works every time Nothing like a bit of emotional blackmail, especially when it happens to be for the cause of the true and righteous

That's so true about getting forgiveness instead of permission! My parents always told me no cats, but when I saw this adorable kitten starving and afraid by a busy street corner, I just brought the cat home. My parents were upset at first, but they got over it and learned to love her and appreciate her mousing abilities. When I would ask my boyfriend about bringing new tanks into the house, he'd get upset, but I just started bringing some home and he's dealing with it and my fish will be much happier this way and I won't have to return any of them! If you take the responsibility of caring for an animal, you just have to stick to it and make some sacrifices, or do what is best for it and find it a better home.

The pottery that growls!