FishProfiles.com Message Forums

I bought a couple Dwarf Bolivian Rams recently and Love the little characters...and their colors. They are doing great!

I have heard of German Blues and Yellow Rams also...but how many other varieties of SA/CA Dwarf Rams are out there for aquarists', please?

There are something like 20 species of South American dwarf cichlids, if I'm not mistaken. However, only two species carry the common name ram, the ram itself and the Bolivian ram, Mikrogeophagus ramirezi and M. altispinosus respectively. AFAIK, M. ramirezi has been bred into a blue form (more or less wild type) and a gold form, and also has been bred to have longer fins.

--------------------------------------------
The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

Thanks, Shinigami

I had never heard of more than the 3 (Bolivian, German Blue and the Golden), but hoped there might be others.

I really like them and would like a "Green" or a Purple" also, if there were such varieties.

thanks

There are something like 20 species of South American dwarf cichlids

ROFLMAO, Shini, come on dude, there are 3-4 times that many different species of Apistos alone! In an estimated guess, I would say there are over 200 different species of dwarf cichlids from SA/CA, and probably guess at closer to 300 or more. But it also falls into the classification of what you call a dwarf. Some people call dwarfs from SA/CA fish that reach up to 3-5 inches in length. While other classify them as under 3 inches. There are like a few dozen dwarf pike cichlid species as well. I have heard many of the Latacara genus called dwarfs as well. The thing is, with SA/CA cichlids, is that there are sooooo many that get large, extra large, and even huge, that some larger of the small sized fish are many times called dwarfs.

But, as for the rams go, there are actually 3 that are called rams. The two that Shini has listed, and there is another that is a species name that I cannot remember. I believe it is something like "zeilflick", but cannot remember.

_____________________________________________________________

There is always a bigger fish...

Haha, I did qualify with if "I'm not mistaken", but that proves I don't know jack about dwarf cichlids. Whoops! I'm probably not even saved if I qualified it with something like "commonly available". Goes to show I shouldn't be sticking my nose into stuff I only know cursory information about, lol.

--------------------------------------------
The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

Yeah the dwarfs listed in the mergus/romer cichlid atlas go to about 350 alone, and I doubt thats totally complete.If there was a 3rd mikro I think its been reclassified.

lol, did not even think to look in that book, and I have all their books, lol. Yep, there are a lot of dwarfs out there.

_____________________________________________________________

There is always a bigger fish...

Thanks guys,
I knew there were hundreds (possibly) of Dwarf Cichlids.

ACIDRAIN,
But I am particularly taken with the "Ram varieties" (microgeophagus......). If you or anyone can think of the name of that "zeilflick" variety....Please let me know and I'll look for it with importer/shippers, etc.

Thanks

My preliminary Google search of German seems to indicate that "zeirfisch" means something similar to "pretty or ornamental" fish.

Let me know if there is a specific variety for it, please?

daddyseal,

there are three main rams -

the german or blue ram. mikrogeophagus ramirezi

the golden or yellow ram. a varient of the species above. same scientific name, just a tank-bred variety.

the bolivian ram. mikrogeophagus altispinosus

there are other 'fancy' breeds such as the long-finned and ballon rams - both travesties - why guild the lily, in my opinion?

justin

Yeah, avoid the longfins and the balloon variants, theyre too fragile by and large for most people to keep alive, some really badly bred fish raised in heavily exploitative conditions with premature fry segregation, terribly limited genepools and horrific mortality rates. Seen plenty of perfectly healthy gold ramerezi though.

My advice, stick to the basic wild types, german blue variants and the gold ones. Selective breeding mutations beyond that lead to some terrible fish health and buying them supports an industry that exploits animals too heavily. Most of the balloons and longfins are fish born only to sell quick, die young ,and turn over a profit , thusly exploiting the newbie fishkeeper. If it doesnt have basic ram morphology and appearance, dont touch it. Many are only kept alive through antibiotic misuse, covering up a bred strain so fragile that immune systems are almost non-existant, chances of a home keeper finding a good one and keeping it healthy and alive are minimal.

Maybe that would explain why I have struggled to keep my rams alive !

Is it possible to breed a blue (or maybe a Bolivian)with a yellow/gold ram?

Has anyone heard of what mixture of coloration the offspring would have? Gold with Blue stripes/patches
(green?)Variegated? What?


Guys, my initial question was about numbers of Ram types. It is nice to know that there are SO many other Dwarf species, as I figured, but the discussion turned to them to my enlightenment(I have a Lot to learn about dwarfs, ingeneral, besides Rams).
ARE most of those other dwarf types compatible with the 3 rams?

daddyseal, you have just charted into dangeropus waters (pardon the pun)... butmany of us here on FP feel rather strongly about keepign gene pools straight and un hybridized.. when hybridizatio occurs dangerous thngs can happen witht he fish and this also damages the purity of the fish, but if you want to try we cannot stop you nor can the law... so you can dfinatly try... but beware the outcome.. sorry if that was a bit harsh at all... also if you wanted to sell them there would be no real potential buyer because they arenot a pure strain or could possibly be sterile or deformed... but if you are into it for aesthetics go a head...

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"

This time I'll qualify my post by saying it's my best guess. The gold and blue rams are of the same species and could breed rather easily. I believe gold and blue are two different traits that are not codominant. If these traits were codominant and both could be expressed about equally at the same time, I think there'd be more mixtures of blue and gold rather than having two distinct types, blue and gold. My bets are that natural blue is dominant, and crossing blue and gold parents results in offspring that are completely blue, as blue would override gold.

Bolivians, on the other hand, are not the same species as the aformentioned blue rams or the gold rams. Crossing them would create some sort of fish that would look like some mix of the parents. This hybridization is largely looked down upon, as creating something new is entirely unnecessary.

--------------------------------------------
The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.